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	<title>Comments on: An Astronomical Identity Crisis</title>
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	<description>A collection of legitimately fascinating information culled from the past, present, and anticipated future.</description>
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		<title>By: Mirage_GSM</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/an-astronomical-identity-crisis/#comment-22379</link>
		<dc:creator>Mirage_GSM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=616#comment-22379</guid>
		<description>[quote]Lennes said: &quot;What else are we going to use? The process of learning involves building on and exrapolating what we allready know. To use something alien to compare and measure with would be completely illogical.[/quote]
Of course you wouldn&#039;t use something &quot;alien&quot;, but something &quot;universal&quot; would be an option. Here on earth we have a long tradition of selecting units corresponding to phenomena here on earth. Even though &quot;ells&quot; are mostly gone and &quot;feet&quot; are hopefully on their way out as well, even metric units are (mostly) derived from measurements taken here on earth.
You could base a unit of time on the decay rate of some element, and it would be universally applicable everywhere.
You could base a unit of distance on the wavelength of light,  and it would be universally applicable everywhere.
The unit for mass [kg] can be said to be universally applicable as it is the mass of one litre of water.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[quote]Lennes said: &#8220;What else are we going to use? The process of learning involves building on and exrapolating what we allready know. To use something alien to compare and measure with would be completely illogical.[/quote]<br />
Of course you wouldn&#8217;t use something &#8220;alien&#8221;, but something &#8220;universal&#8221; would be an option. Here on earth we have a long tradition of selecting units corresponding to phenomena here on earth. Even though &#8220;ells&#8221; are mostly gone and &#8220;feet&#8221; are hopefully on their way out as well, even metric units are (mostly) derived from measurements taken here on earth.<br />
You could base a unit of time on the decay rate of some element, and it would be universally applicable everywhere.<br />
You could base a unit of distance on the wavelength of light,  and it would be universally applicable everywhere.<br />
The unit for mass [kg] can be said to be universally applicable as it is the mass of one litre of water.</p>
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		<title>By: tarteauxpommes</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/an-astronomical-identity-crisis/#comment-15840</link>
		<dc:creator>tarteauxpommes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 21:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yep, and a different planet way way farther out (which is bigger than Pluto) is either under serious consideration as a planet or has been declared as a new planet-it escapes me which one it is right now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, and a different planet way way farther out (which is bigger than Pluto) is either under serious consideration as a planet or has been declared as a new planet-it escapes me which one it is right now.</p>
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		<title>By: elifint</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/an-astronomical-identity-crisis/#comment-8235</link>
		<dc:creator>elifint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Aug 2006 02:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=616#comment-8235</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And the latest news is that the astronomers just decided that Pluto&#039;s not a planet after all, but instead one of a large number of &quot;dwarf planets.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the latest news is that the astronomers just decided that Pluto&#8217;s not a planet after all, but instead one of a large number of &#8220;dwarf planets.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jarom</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/an-astronomical-identity-crisis/#comment-8009</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=616#comment-8009</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Marisa.....wonderful article!!!  I very much enjoyed it.  I&#039;ve taught my daughter the 9 planets (she&#039;s 4) and also Sedna as the tenth...so she looks smart to others who haven&#039;t heard of it....hehehe.   I haven&#039;t seen much written anywhere about Sedna and can&#039;t remember where I heard of it in the first place.  You&#039;re article, however, confirms that it&#039;s real....and many other possible planets too.  Thanks for the good read.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marisa&#8230;..wonderful article!!!  I very much enjoyed it.  I&#8217;ve taught my daughter the 9 planets (she&#8217;s 4) and also Sedna as the tenth&#8230;so she looks smart to others who haven&#8217;t heard of it&#8230;.hehehe.   I haven&#8217;t seen much written anywhere about Sedna and can&#8217;t remember where I heard of it in the first place.  You&#8217;re article, however, confirms that it&#8217;s real&#8230;.and many other possible planets too.  Thanks for the good read.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/an-astronomical-identity-crisis/#comment-7858</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Aug 2006 00:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=616#comment-7858</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I was just now watching a show on this on the National Geographic Channel last night, maybe it was the science channel. But they said things like if we consider Pluto a planet, then we should consider our moon a planet, since our moon is actually bigger than Pluto. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just now watching a show on this on the National Geographic Channel last night, maybe it was the science channel. But they said things like if we consider Pluto a planet, then we should consider our moon a planet, since our moon is actually bigger than Pluto. </p>
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		<title>By: Drakvil</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/an-astronomical-identity-crisis/#comment-7795</link>
		<dc:creator>Drakvil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Aug 2006 06:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=616#comment-7795</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;Haywood Jablome said: &quot;Wow i should really research a little more next time before i post.  Sedna&#039;s orbit takes 12050 years……………&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;That&#039;s just crazy..&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Interesting idea this brings up... I think that rather than a planet, Sedna may more likely be a comet.  The comets mostly originate in the Oort cloud and have highly eccentric orbits that can range from 76 years (Halley&#039;s comet) out at least as far as 60,000 years (either Hyakutake or Hale-Bopp if my flawed memory serves right).  I guess the way to find out without actually visiting Sedna would be if Sedna&#039;s orbit brings it inside the orbit of Jupiter - that is roughly the demarcation point where the solar wind heats up a comet enough so that it starts to outgas (ice sublimating into a gas) and the debris and gas is blown away from the Sun.  It&#039;s strange to note that comets approach the Sun with their tails behind them, but when they leave the comet follows it&#039;s tail out - the tail is always pointing away from the Sun.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='quote'>Haywood Jablome said: &#8220;Wow i should really research a little more next time before i post.  Sedna&#8217;s orbit takes 12050 years……………</span></p>
<p><span class='quote'>That&#8217;s just crazy..&#8221;</span></p>
<p>Interesting idea this brings up&#8230; I think that rather than a planet, Sedna may more likely be a comet.  The comets mostly originate in the Oort cloud and have highly eccentric orbits that can range from 76 years (Halley&#8217;s comet) out at least as far as 60,000 years (either Hyakutake or Hale-Bopp if my flawed memory serves right).  I guess the way to find out without actually visiting Sedna would be if Sedna&#8217;s orbit brings it inside the orbit of Jupiter &#8211; that is roughly the demarcation point where the solar wind heats up a comet enough so that it starts to outgas (ice sublimating into a gas) and the debris and gas is blown away from the Sun.  It&#8217;s strange to note that comets approach the Sun with their tails behind them, but when they leave the comet follows it&#8217;s tail out &#8211; the tail is always pointing away from the Sun.</p>
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		<title>By: Mez</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/an-astronomical-identity-crisis/#comment-7784</link>
		<dc:creator>Mez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Aug 2006 08:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=616#comment-7784</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;Try, &quot;My Very Efficient Mother Just Served Us Cold Pork Jelly Valiantly.&quot;&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;
Actually, with the asteroids being between Mars and Jupiter, it would have been more like My Very Efficient Mother Chilled Pork Jelly, Voluntarily Just Serving Us.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='quote'>Try, &#8220;My Very Efficient Mother Just Served Us Cold Pork Jelly Valiantly.&#8221;"</span></p>
<p>
Actually, with the asteroids being between Mars and Jupiter, it would have been more like My Very Efficient Mother Chilled Pork Jelly, Voluntarily Just Serving Us.</p>
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		<title>By: Vanya</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/an-astronomical-identity-crisis/#comment-7780</link>
		<dc:creator>Vanya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Aug 2006 22:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=616#comment-7780</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Number 9... Number 9... Number 9... why redefine what a planet is? Let it be a quaint accident of history that there are nine planets. Sort of like the Masons... don&#039;t let anyone else join,  and don&#039;t throw anyone out.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Number 9&#8230; Number 9&#8230; Number 9&#8230; why redefine what a planet is? Let it be a quaint accident of history that there are nine planets. Sort of like the Masons&#8230; don&#8217;t let anyone else join,  and don&#8217;t throw anyone out.</p>
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		<title>By: Lennes</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/an-astronomical-identity-crisis/#comment-7778</link>
		<dc:creator>Lennes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Aug 2006 17:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=616#comment-7778</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;superdude4agze said: &quot;why exactly should we use our moon as the measuring stick for planet size? Does not seem logical that we should measure everything in relation to what we have…&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;What else are we going to use? The process of learning involves building on and exrapolating what we allready know. To use something alien to compare and measure with would be completely illogical.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;And me being an 18-year old, I may not be at the proper age for remembering this, but I seem to recall something about a &quot;Planet X&quot;??&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;You probably know this by now, but just for the sake of it; to my knowledge wasn&#039;t the whole Planet X thing dispelled? Uranus was found by following up anomalies in Neptune&#039;s orbit. But there were still anomalies in both planet&#039;s orbits, leading up to a theorized Planet X. Percival Lowell projected co-ordinates for the new planet, and thus Pluto was found. Theories popped up about Pluto actually being much bigger than what was merely visible, but it&#039;s moon Charon put those to rest. In the end Neptune ended up being larger than originally thought when Voyager 2 made it&#039;s trip there, thus there weren&#039;t any problems in the first place.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;But it makes sense to think that this isn&#039;t the coincident it&#039;s made out to be. Moreso just inevitability. You have this stack of Kuiper Belt objects floating around that nobody pays attention to. If you point anywhere, nomatter how you got the co-ordinates, you&#039;re bound to find something. Pluto just happened to be where they pinned the donkey&#039;s tail.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;Marisa Brook said: &quot;And such a reclassification has actually been done before. Ceres, the largest asteroid and the first to be discovered, was considered a planet from its accidental discovery in 1801 until about 1850.&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Now this (to me at least), is by far the most fascinating part of the article. Because with further investigation,  and found this.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;Wikipedia: &quot;There is some historical precedent for &quot;demoting&quot; a &quot;planet&quot; in the light of subsequent discoveries. The first four asteroids (1 Ceres, 2 Pallas, 3 Juno and 4 Vesta) were considered to be planets for several decades (in part because their sizes were not accurately known at the time). However, in 1845, the first new asteroid in thirty-eight years was discovered (5 Astraea), just one year before Neptune, and soon every year brought more asteroid discoveries.&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;This means that between 1801 and 1845 before Neptune, there was thought to be 11 planets in our solar system.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;smokefoot said: &quot;Kids might be learning &quot;My Very Efficient Mother Just Served Us Nine Pickles So Xerxes Quit Playing With Us Because He Hates Pickles Except With Sourkraut…&quot;&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Try, &quot;My Very Efficient Mother Just Served Us Cold Pork Jelly Valiantly.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='quote'>superdude4agze said: &#8220;why exactly should we use our moon as the measuring stick for planet size? Does not seem logical that we should measure everything in relation to what we have…&#8221;</span></p>
<p>What else are we going to use? The process of learning involves building on and exrapolating what we allready know. To use something alien to compare and measure with would be completely illogical.</p>
<p><span class='quote'>And me being an 18-year old, I may not be at the proper age for remembering this, but I seem to recall something about a &#8220;Planet X&#8221;??</span></p>
<p>You probably know this by now, but just for the sake of it; to my knowledge wasn&#8217;t the whole Planet X thing dispelled? Uranus was found by following up anomalies in Neptune&#8217;s orbit. But there were still anomalies in both planet&#8217;s orbits, leading up to a theorized Planet X. Percival Lowell projected co-ordinates for the new planet, and thus Pluto was found. Theories popped up about Pluto actually being much bigger than what was merely visible, but it&#8217;s moon Charon put those to rest. In the end Neptune ended up being larger than originally thought when Voyager 2 made it&#8217;s trip there, thus there weren&#8217;t any problems in the first place.</p>
<p>But it makes sense to think that this isn&#8217;t the coincident it&#8217;s made out to be. Moreso just inevitability. You have this stack of Kuiper Belt objects floating around that nobody pays attention to. If you point anywhere, nomatter how you got the co-ordinates, you&#8217;re bound to find something. Pluto just happened to be where they pinned the donkey&#8217;s tail.</p>
<p><span class='quote'>Marisa Brook said: &#8220;And such a reclassification has actually been done before. Ceres, the largest asteroid and the first to be discovered, was considered a planet from its accidental discovery in 1801 until about 1850.&#8221;</span></p>
<p>Now this (to me at least), is by far the most fascinating part of the article. Because with further investigation,  and found this.</p>
<p><span class='quote'>Wikipedia: &#8220;There is some historical precedent for &#8220;demoting&#8221; a &#8220;planet&#8221; in the light of subsequent discoveries. The first four asteroids (1 Ceres, 2 Pallas, 3 Juno and 4 Vesta) were considered to be planets for several decades (in part because their sizes were not accurately known at the time). However, in 1845, the first new asteroid in thirty-eight years was discovered (5 Astraea), just one year before Neptune, and soon every year brought more asteroid discoveries.&#8221;</span></p>
<p>This means that between 1801 and 1845 before Neptune, there was thought to be 11 planets in our solar system.</p>
<p><span class='quote'>smokefoot said: &#8220;Kids might be learning &#8220;My Very Efficient Mother Just Served Us Nine Pickles So Xerxes Quit Playing With Us Because He Hates Pickles Except With Sourkraut…&#8221;"</span></p>
<p>Try, &#8220;My Very Efficient Mother Just Served Us Cold Pork Jelly Valiantly.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: HiEv</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/an-astronomical-identity-crisis/#comment-7759</link>
		<dc:creator>HiEv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Aug 2006 07:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;Misfit7707 said: &quot;I think the issue of direction is needed here as well. I may be mistaken if this isn&#039;t a big factor, but all of the planets seem to be orbiting the sun in the same direction: counter-clockwise. Is this just a &#039;given&#039; for everything out there in our solar system? Or could this one day be yet another factor in judging a planet&#039;s.... er.. rites of passage?&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Do you mean all rotating in the same direction or all rotating counter-clockwise?

Well, whether it&#039;s going clockwise or counter-clockwise depends on the arbitrary decision of which side of the solar system you define as the &quot;top&quot;.  If you treat the other side of the solar system as the &quot;top&quot; then it&#039;s rotating clockwise.

Since there is no objective way to determine what side of another solar system is the &quot;top&quot; and they appear in all sorts of orientations, they will only all rotate counter-clockwise if you define the &quot;top&quot; of a solar system as the side where everything rotates counter-clockwise.

As far as I&#039;m aware though, of the few stars known to have multiple planets all of them have planets that all orbit the star in the same direction.  That being said, there is a newly forming solar system that has been found to have the materials in it rotating around the center in opposite directions.  See here:

&lt;b&gt;Newly Forming Solar System Has Planets Running Backwards&lt;/b&gt; (2/13/&#039;06)
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/opposite_orbit.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/opposite_orbit.html&lt;/a&gt;
(Note: Ignore the title of the article, no planets have actually formed yet.)

So, while all of the solar systems we know of currently have all of their planets orbiting in the same direction, we may still someday find a star that has planets orbiting in opposite directions that have been doing so since that solar system was formed.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='quote'>Misfit7707 said: &#8220;I think the issue of direction is needed here as well. I may be mistaken if this isn&#8217;t a big factor, but all of the planets seem to be orbiting the sun in the same direction: counter-clockwise. Is this just a &#8216;given&#8217; for everything out there in our solar system? Or could this one day be yet another factor in judging a planet&#8217;s&#8230;. er.. rites of passage?&#8221;</span></p>
<p>Do you mean all rotating in the same direction or all rotating counter-clockwise?</p>
<p>Well, whether it&#8217;s going clockwise or counter-clockwise depends on the arbitrary decision of which side of the solar system you define as the &#8220;top&#8221;.  If you treat the other side of the solar system as the &#8220;top&#8221; then it&#8217;s rotating clockwise.</p>
<p>Since there is no objective way to determine what side of another solar system is the &#8220;top&#8221; and they appear in all sorts of orientations, they will only all rotate counter-clockwise if you define the &#8220;top&#8221; of a solar system as the side where everything rotates counter-clockwise.</p>
<p>As far as I&#8217;m aware though, of the few stars known to have multiple planets all of them have planets that all orbit the star in the same direction.  That being said, there is a newly forming solar system that has been found to have the materials in it rotating around the center in opposite directions.  See here:</p>
<p><b>Newly Forming Solar System Has Planets Running Backwards</b> (2/13/&#8217;06)<br />
<a href="http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/opposite_orbit.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2006/opposite_orbit.html</a><br />
(Note: Ignore the title of the article, no planets have actually formed yet.)</p>
<p>So, while all of the solar systems we know of currently have all of their planets orbiting in the same direction, we may still someday find a star that has planets orbiting in opposite directions that have been doing so since that solar system was formed.</p>
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