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	<title>Comments on: Chuck Bonnet and the Hallucinations</title>
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	<description>A collection of Damn Interesting things</description>
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		<title>By: oldbogeydog</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/chuck-bonnet-and-the-hallucinations#comment-22231</link>
		<dc:creator>oldbogeydog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=604#comment-22231</guid>
		<description>Nice link to the Musical Ear, Renfield. My father-in-law had it once and was hearing Silent Night very clearly. He was just about stone-deaf then, as confirmed in the article. When he was hearing it, he&#039;d ask us if we could hear it also and be sort of amazed that we couldn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice link to the Musical Ear, Renfield. My father-in-law had it once and was hearing Silent Night very clearly. He was just about stone-deaf then, as confirmed in the article. When he was hearing it, he&#8217;d ask us if we could hear it also and be sort of amazed that we couldn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: schoschie</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/chuck-bonnet-and-the-hallucinations#comment-21624</link>
		<dc:creator>schoschie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 14:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=604#comment-21624</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s so much in here. It&#039;s hard to control all my thoughts. I had to take notes while I was reading the article and the comments so as not to forget all the ideas that came up. Pretty damn interesting article and comments, thanks!

I am most intrigued by the ideas that came up in the latter 10 or 20 comments, namely the similar experiences of people under the influence of psychoactive substances, hinting at the possibility that hallucinations and visions might not simply be random activity of idling parts of the brain, even though it seems to be a very plausible explanation. I agree with »documented« citing Don J »... that our modern scientific view of the world is a correct one, but is only a part of the whole story &amp; that - in order to keep us &quot;sane&quot; our brain filters out a lot of what is out there…«. There&#039;s no doubt in our Western civilization&#039;s scientific world view being correct as scientific proof is irrefutable. However, that is not to say it is complete. I&#039;m convinced we are missing out on something.

With regard to the evidence of »8.75 megabits per second« worth of visual data input to the eye – I&#039;m not a neurologist, but I find this figure rather questionable as well. 8.75 Mbit/s is only about 1.1 MBytes/s. That&#039;s a ridiculously small number (an uncompressed stream of NTSC video data (TV!) is roughly 44 (!) MBytes/s [640 * 480 pixels * 3 bytes/pixel (RGB) * 50 frames per second / 1024 / 1024] – I think most people would agree that human vision is superior to TV in a way such that even the thought of comparing the two is silly). Did the scientists explicitly measure pixels in their experiments? Or, rather, nerve impulses? — I disagree strongly with the prevalent notion of comparing the brain and the nervous system with a digital computer. That is obviously a very, very crude model, but a lot of people seem to take it seriously. Not only is the nervous system analog in nature (allowing much more information to be encoded than the 0/1-absoluteness of digital), but it would appear that nervous impulses carry information (»data«) in ways that are incredibly more complex than a bunch of electrons in a wire.

misanthrope, PhilD, Silverhill, Techno-Kid: I could read and understand both the English and the French jumbled-up words, even though my native language is German (I know English fairly well and my French is so-so). I think it depends a lot on the way you read.

I was surprised to read ifeelya&#039;s comment about hallucinations from Prozac. I was pretty sure Fluoxetine should not induce hallucinations, but a quick search seems to prove otherwise: http://www.google.de/search?q=prozac%20hallucinations

PS. I LOL&#039;ed at all the CBS (tv station) jokes!

(BTW: I could not post this from Safari/Mac and had to do it in Firefox. The preview seems to use some JavaScript code that doesn&#039;t work in Safari. The page just fades to dark and then nothing happens.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s so much in here. It&#8217;s hard to control all my thoughts. I had to take notes while I was reading the article and the comments so as not to forget all the ideas that came up. Pretty damn interesting article and comments, thanks!</p>
<p>I am most intrigued by the ideas that came up in the latter 10 or 20 comments, namely the similar experiences of people under the influence of psychoactive substances, hinting at the possibility that hallucinations and visions might not simply be random activity of idling parts of the brain, even though it seems to be a very plausible explanation. I agree with »documented« citing Don J »&#8230; that our modern scientific view of the world is a correct one, but is only a part of the whole story &amp; that &#8211; in order to keep us &#8220;sane&#8221; our brain filters out a lot of what is out there…«. There&#8217;s no doubt in our Western civilization&#8217;s scientific world view being correct as scientific proof is irrefutable. However, that is not to say it is complete. I&#8217;m convinced we are missing out on something.</p>
<p>With regard to the evidence of »8.75 megabits per second« worth of visual data input to the eye – I&#8217;m not a neurologist, but I find this figure rather questionable as well. 8.75 Mbit/s is only about 1.1 MBytes/s. That&#8217;s a ridiculously small number (an uncompressed stream of NTSC video data (TV!) is roughly 44 (!) MBytes/s [640 * 480 pixels * 3 bytes/pixel (RGB) * 50 frames per second / 1024 / 1024] – I think most people would agree that human vision is superior to TV in a way such that even the thought of comparing the two is silly). Did the scientists explicitly measure pixels in their experiments? Or, rather, nerve impulses? — I disagree strongly with the prevalent notion of comparing the brain and the nervous system with a digital computer. That is obviously a very, very crude model, but a lot of people seem to take it seriously. Not only is the nervous system analog in nature (allowing much more information to be encoded than the 0/1-absoluteness of digital), but it would appear that nervous impulses carry information (»data«) in ways that are incredibly more complex than a bunch of electrons in a wire.</p>
<p>misanthrope, PhilD, Silverhill, Techno-Kid: I could read and understand both the English and the French jumbled-up words, even though my native language is German (I know English fairly well and my French is so-so). I think it depends a lot on the way you read.</p>
<p>I was surprised to read ifeelya&#8217;s comment about hallucinations from Prozac. I was pretty sure Fluoxetine should not induce hallucinations, but a quick search seems to prove otherwise: <a href="http://www.google.de/search?q=prozac%20hallucinations" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.de/search?q=prozac%20hallucinations</a></p>
<p>PS. I LOL&#8217;ed at all the CBS (tv station) jokes!</p>
<p>(BTW: I could not post this from Safari/Mac and had to do it in Firefox. The preview seems to use some JavaScript code that doesn&#8217;t work in Safari. The page just fades to dark and then nothing happens.)</p>
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		<title>By: angelfire04</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/chuck-bonnet-and-the-hallucinations#comment-21300</link>
		<dc:creator>angelfire04</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 14:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=604#comment-21300</guid>
		<description>this interesting article can make you wonder how far can reality be bended by the brain.. can it also support theories why some people claim to be seeing ghosts while others can&#039;t especially ghost are often silent floating beings, often times staring at you or wearing clothes that no longer exists in the present time, or curious enough to explain how some people claim to see creatures that only exists in fairy tales? this article can stir up quite a discussion if you are really up to all the angles and possible expriences that people do or claim to have seen, heard, or felt. could this kind of disease be the god-father of all the folklores, fairytales, and legends? hmmm... interesting indeed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this interesting article can make you wonder how far can reality be bended by the brain.. can it also support theories why some people claim to be seeing ghosts while others can&#8217;t especially ghost are often silent floating beings, often times staring at you or wearing clothes that no longer exists in the present time, or curious enough to explain how some people claim to see creatures that only exists in fairy tales? this article can stir up quite a discussion if you are really up to all the angles and possible expriences that people do or claim to have seen, heard, or felt. could this kind of disease be the god-father of all the folklores, fairytales, and legends? hmmm&#8230; interesting indeed!</p>
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		<title>By: Rachelita</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/chuck-bonnet-and-the-hallucinations#comment-21266</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachelita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 20:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=604#comment-21266</guid>
		<description>Also, that picture with the face floating in th flowers gave me the heeby-jeebys.&quot;[/quote]


I completely agree... Not okay!
I hope this doesn&#039;t happen to me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, that picture with the face floating in th flowers gave me the heeby-jeebys.&#8221;[/quote]</p>
<p>I completely agree&#8230; Not okay!<br />
I hope this doesn&#8217;t happen to me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anthropositor</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/chuck-bonnet-and-the-hallucinations#comment-20663</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthropositor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=604#comment-20663</guid>
		<description>[quote]wheresmyhouse said: &quot;The first two times I was able to do the blind spot test successfully, after that, though, I simply couldn&#039;t for some reason.&quot;[/quote]
You probably just got a bit tired.  Do it again in a day or two.  If you still can&#039;t do it, you might want to sort out why.  Here are another few ways things could go astray.
1.  You could be tilting your head.  Your eyes should be parallel to the line.
2.  Wrong distance from screen.  Get closer or a little further away.
3.  Look at each letter of the word &quot;interesting&quot; rather than the whole word.  
If I am any example, it is in the area of &quot;terest&quot; which will blank out the logo.
The ends of the word allow the logo to reappear.
4.  You can test the right eye by covering the left, and looking at about the left edge of the monitor at the spot an extension of the test line would cross.  I can&#039;t do that at the moment because of some cataract opacity cutting detail, contrast, and even the perception of some colors (like yellow).

I have been working on ways to fix it.  An uphill fight.  I figure I have a half year to two years before my left eye is in the same position.  But I believe I have slowed down the progress of the damage to both eyes significantly in the past year.  More on this over at my place, for anyone with developing cataracts who wants to stave off an operation for a few extra years.  Just root around in the archives.  Might even be an operation to remove a damaged eye I did for my favorite cat Felice, who almost croaked from blunt force trauma which had been applied by an unknown assailant in my back yard.  The eye was actually in front of the orbit and well pressurized... Uh, maybe I should stop there.

I doubt anybody wants to hear anything about an impromptu eye removal from  a critically injured pet cat.  I&#039;ll just say Felice is now fat and sassy, doesn&#039;t seem to miss the eye, and doesn&#039;t seem to hold it against me that I operated without an anesthetic.  He was very good about it.  I couldn&#039;t have done it without his cooperation.  

His broken upper jaw came out quite well as well, which is a relief.  I would have hated to have him on soft foods forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[quote]wheresmyhouse said: &#8220;The first two times I was able to do the blind spot test successfully, after that, though, I simply couldn&#8217;t for some reason.&#8221;[/quote]<br />
You probably just got a bit tired.  Do it again in a day or two.  If you still can&#8217;t do it, you might want to sort out why.  Here are another few ways things could go astray.<br />
1.  You could be tilting your head.  Your eyes should be parallel to the line.<br />
2.  Wrong distance from screen.  Get closer or a little further away.<br />
3.  Look at each letter of the word &#8220;interesting&#8221; rather than the whole word.<br />
If I am any example, it is in the area of &#8220;terest&#8221; which will blank out the logo.<br />
The ends of the word allow the logo to reappear.<br />
4.  You can test the right eye by covering the left, and looking at about the left edge of the monitor at the spot an extension of the test line would cross.  I can&#8217;t do that at the moment because of some cataract opacity cutting detail, contrast, and even the perception of some colors (like yellow).</p>
<p>I have been working on ways to fix it.  An uphill fight.  I figure I have a half year to two years before my left eye is in the same position.  But I believe I have slowed down the progress of the damage to both eyes significantly in the past year.  More on this over at my place, for anyone with developing cataracts who wants to stave off an operation for a few extra years.  Just root around in the archives.  Might even be an operation to remove a damaged eye I did for my favorite cat Felice, who almost croaked from blunt force trauma which had been applied by an unknown assailant in my back yard.  The eye was actually in front of the orbit and well pressurized&#8230; Uh, maybe I should stop there.</p>
<p>I doubt anybody wants to hear anything about an impromptu eye removal from  a critically injured pet cat.  I&#8217;ll just say Felice is now fat and sassy, doesn&#8217;t seem to miss the eye, and doesn&#8217;t seem to hold it against me that I operated without an anesthetic.  He was very good about it.  I couldn&#8217;t have done it without his cooperation.  </p>
<p>His broken upper jaw came out quite well as well, which is a relief.  I would have hated to have him on soft foods forever.</p>
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		<title>By: wheresmyhouse</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/chuck-bonnet-and-the-hallucinations#comment-20643</link>
		<dc:creator>wheresmyhouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 04:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=604#comment-20643</guid>
		<description>The first two times I was able to do the blind spot test successfully, after that, though, I simply couldn&#039;t for some reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first two times I was able to do the blind spot test successfully, after that, though, I simply couldn&#8217;t for some reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthropositor</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/chuck-bonnet-and-the-hallucinations#comment-20388</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthropositor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=604#comment-20388</guid>
		<description>I troll perhaps a hundred blogs before finding one to bookmark.  Most that I bookmark get six or less visits before I once again move on.  Encroaching blindness has me more concerned than even the compelling uncertainties of cardiovascular disease or cancer.  Related to blindness is hallucination and misinterpretation of visual input.  

My right eye has a cataract which prevents sharp detail at any distance and causes loss of contrast problems as well.  I have noticed that during driving, I sometimes misinterpret what even the better left eye sees for a split second.  This misinterpretation is in fact a momentary hallucination.  I must compensate with much greater alertness and concentration.  That is to say, because of this developing problem, I use my brain with considerably greater facility.  It is not just our other senses that are sharpened when one sense is diminished.  Our ability to think is also strengthened in some odd ways.  

A stroke impaired my ability as a chess coach a few years ago.  Having been a coach for half a century, I was dismayed by this turn of events.  I estimated that I had lost something on the order of 40 IQ points.  What could be the possible upside of this?

I was able to understand the difficulties of those around me because of the new difficulties in thinking and concentration that I was having.  And in relearning many of my skills, I learned new things that I would have been very unlikely to learn without the felt need provided by the injured brain.  The plasticity of the brain astonishes me.  Before the stroke, I was difficult to astonish.  Nothing is routine anymore.  The jaded dilettante is gone.  The wondering child is back.  I still haven&#039;t gotten back everything I lost, but the bonuses more than make up for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I troll perhaps a hundred blogs before finding one to bookmark.  Most that I bookmark get six or less visits before I once again move on.  Encroaching blindness has me more concerned than even the compelling uncertainties of cardiovascular disease or cancer.  Related to blindness is hallucination and misinterpretation of visual input.  </p>
<p>My right eye has a cataract which prevents sharp detail at any distance and causes loss of contrast problems as well.  I have noticed that during driving, I sometimes misinterpret what even the better left eye sees for a split second.  This misinterpretation is in fact a momentary hallucination.  I must compensate with much greater alertness and concentration.  That is to say, because of this developing problem, I use my brain with considerably greater facility.  It is not just our other senses that are sharpened when one sense is diminished.  Our ability to think is also strengthened in some odd ways.  </p>
<p>A stroke impaired my ability as a chess coach a few years ago.  Having been a coach for half a century, I was dismayed by this turn of events.  I estimated that I had lost something on the order of 40 IQ points.  What could be the possible upside of this?</p>
<p>I was able to understand the difficulties of those around me because of the new difficulties in thinking and concentration that I was having.  And in relearning many of my skills, I learned new things that I would have been very unlikely to learn without the felt need provided by the injured brain.  The plasticity of the brain astonishes me.  Before the stroke, I was difficult to astonish.  Nothing is routine anymore.  The jaded dilettante is gone.  The wondering child is back.  I still haven&#8217;t gotten back everything I lost, but the bonuses more than make up for it.</p>
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		<title>By: documented</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/chuck-bonnet-and-the-hallucinations#comment-20314</link>
		<dc:creator>documented</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=604#comment-20314</guid>
		<description>I am surprised that no-one here has commented so far on the striking similarities between many of these CBS hallucinations &amp; the writings of Carlos Castaneda &amp; his dealings with Don Juan Matus.   
CC wrote about 12-13 books on his apprenticeship in the 1960s with the Indian-Toltec nagual/medicine man/sorcerer Juan Matus before CCs death several years ago. Many of the symptoms of C Bonnet syndrome really do sound remarkably similar to both his drug-induced states but also those which he experienced without drugs &amp; where, to CCs general disbelief, Don Juan insists that such beings really do exist in &quot;another&quot; realm (or one of many realms) &amp; that such &quot;visions&quot; are seen by many - ie children, monks, drug takers, visionaries etc.  
One of the most obvious logical questions to ask any doubter would be that if these CBS visions are merely hallucinations produced by the cortex &quot;filling in&quot; the now missing data, then why would the gargoyle-like apparitions all be of the same appearance (for many patients) - the wide staring dark eyes, protruding teeth etc - when surely a more likely expectation of a mere set of internally-derived hallucinations would be either a random choice of ordinary facial types or maybe the faces of friends &amp; relatives ? - why gargoyles? - which appearances, incidentally, are very well documented throughout all ages &amp; cultures as the incubus &amp; succubus of dreamtime. If these are purely imaginary, then why do they look the same? 
Do all the CBS sufferer&#039;s brains by chance arrive at an image of a gargoyle? - seems like a bit of a long shot to me ! 
Don Juan  &amp; the Toltecs on whom his teachings were drawn, used such apparitions or other-worldly beings as aids in their sorcery &amp; called them &quot;allies&quot;  - and these could also take very many strange forms &amp; could perform unusual feats &amp; help teach many things, but could often become a nuisance - hanging around when they were no longer wanted/needed. 
Many of those who have taken ayahuasca report that the Ayahuasca spirit is &quot;very real indeed&quot; ie a wooden man sitting there &amp; talking to you  - &amp; that you can ask questions &amp; will be given answers - ditto for salvia (diviner&#039;s sage) - [ which really is VERY profound/strange]
Further, many of the geometric lines &amp; mosaics described in CBS sound like Don Juan talking about the &quot;lines of the world&quot; - where the toltecs maintained that the world and the entire universe is composed of lines or strings that interconnect &amp; that it is only by interacting with these lines that us humans &amp; all other beings can interact with &amp; &quot;understand&quot; the world around us.  Don J explained that our modern scientific view of the world is a correct one, but is only a part of the whole story &amp; that - in order to keep us &quot;sane&quot; our brain filters out a lot of what is out there &amp; by concensus We ( the human family) essentially agree on what is REAL - ergo, one possible explanation of why those who are insane (or not Sane) can often see things that the rest of us agree are simply not there - ie, by definition, to be &quot;seeing things&quot; means that you are indeed insane (that you are out-of-step with the rest of us).    Ian.  UK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am surprised that no-one here has commented so far on the striking similarities between many of these CBS hallucinations &amp; the writings of Carlos Castaneda &amp; his dealings with Don Juan Matus.<br />
CC wrote about 12-13 books on his apprenticeship in the 1960s with the Indian-Toltec nagual/medicine man/sorcerer Juan Matus before CCs death several years ago. Many of the symptoms of C Bonnet syndrome really do sound remarkably similar to both his drug-induced states but also those which he experienced without drugs &amp; where, to CCs general disbelief, Don Juan insists that such beings really do exist in &#8220;another&#8221; realm (or one of many realms) &amp; that such &#8220;visions&#8221; are seen by many &#8211; ie children, monks, drug takers, visionaries etc.<br />
One of the most obvious logical questions to ask any doubter would be that if these CBS visions are merely hallucinations produced by the cortex &#8220;filling in&#8221; the now missing data, then why would the gargoyle-like apparitions all be of the same appearance (for many patients) &#8211; the wide staring dark eyes, protruding teeth etc &#8211; when surely a more likely expectation of a mere set of internally-derived hallucinations would be either a random choice of ordinary facial types or maybe the faces of friends &amp; relatives ? &#8211; why gargoyles? &#8211; which appearances, incidentally, are very well documented throughout all ages &amp; cultures as the incubus &amp; succubus of dreamtime. If these are purely imaginary, then why do they look the same?<br />
Do all the CBS sufferer&#8217;s brains by chance arrive at an image of a gargoyle? &#8211; seems like a bit of a long shot to me !<br />
Don Juan  &amp; the Toltecs on whom his teachings were drawn, used such apparitions or other-worldly beings as aids in their sorcery &amp; called them &#8220;allies&#8221;  &#8211; and these could also take very many strange forms &amp; could perform unusual feats &amp; help teach many things, but could often become a nuisance &#8211; hanging around when they were no longer wanted/needed.<br />
Many of those who have taken ayahuasca report that the Ayahuasca spirit is &#8220;very real indeed&#8221; ie a wooden man sitting there &amp; talking to you  &#8211; &amp; that you can ask questions &amp; will be given answers &#8211; ditto for salvia (diviner&#8217;s sage) &#8211; [ which really is VERY profound/strange]<br />
Further, many of the geometric lines &amp; mosaics described in CBS sound like Don Juan talking about the &#8220;lines of the world&#8221; &#8211; where the toltecs maintained that the world and the entire universe is composed of lines or strings that interconnect &amp; that it is only by interacting with these lines that us humans &amp; all other beings can interact with &amp; &#8220;understand&#8221; the world around us.  Don J explained that our modern scientific view of the world is a correct one, but is only a part of the whole story &amp; that &#8211; in order to keep us &#8220;sane&#8221; our brain filters out a lot of what is out there &amp; by concensus We ( the human family) essentially agree on what is REAL &#8211; ergo, one possible explanation of why those who are insane (or not Sane) can often see things that the rest of us agree are simply not there &#8211; ie, by definition, to be &#8220;seeing things&#8221; means that you are indeed insane (that you are out-of-step with the rest of us).    Ian.  UK</p>
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