Comments on: Do What You’re Told http://www.damninteresting.com/do-what-youre-told A collection of Damn Interesting things Thu, 09 Sep 2010 02:02:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: satisfactory-delusion http://www.damninteresting.com/do-what-youre-told#comment-25340 satisfactory-delusion Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:12:59 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=242#comment-25340 [quote]Daniel Lew said: "The “Obediance” video that is about the Millgram studies is absolutely creepy to watch. It’s worth finding if you are into psychological experiments."[/quote] I just watched that and I'm actually now truely horrified, it's scary to think that just normal people would do that :S Thanks for mentioning it, it's been really interesting [quote]Daniel Lew said: “The “Obediance” video that is about the Millgram studies is absolutely creepy to watch. It’s worth finding if you are into psychological experiments.”[/quote]

I just watched that and I’m actually now truely horrified, it’s scary to think that just normal people would do that :S Thanks for mentioning it, it’s been really interesting

]]> By: ValiantDefender http://www.damninteresting.com/do-what-youre-told#comment-23723 ValiantDefender Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:51:27 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=242#comment-23723 [quote]ddonovan said: "I can tell you why we aren't asking why anymore. The ones who can ask why have too much to lose to make a point. I can't afford to spend time in jail for telling the TSA bot that I'm taking my nail clippers on the plane, the law be damned. All that will happen is I'll miss my flight and have a big mess to dig myself out of. Maybe I'll even get myself on the news for it, and when my company finds out about it I'll be signing up for a bout of unemployment until it is long forgotten. It's great to be young and cocky and debt-free, living in your parents' basement and having nothing to lose, but when you've got a job, a mortgage, and a car payment, living within the boundaries of the law is simply the least costly way to live your life. Add in a wife and kids, and your responsibilities to yourself and to your family far outweigh your desire (or your time and money) to right any injustices of the world. As Mel Gibson so eloquently put it in "The Patriot": "I'm a father, I haven't the luxury of principles." As I would put it, "I've got bills to pay, I cannot afford to take the time off to save the world." Even worse, we are so naive and misguided about the world in our early adult years - when we can still afford to save the world - that even if we could fix things, we'd fix all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons."[/quote] More Kudos. The worry is that rights will be peeled away while no new freedoms are given and that it will be done in such a way that no one will notice (or get upset) until it is too late. Much like a Frog who is slowly boiled alive...will we notice the danger before the temperature is too high? When someone says its time to jump out will we call them crazy? or borrow their courage and jump out too? Tomorrows world may 100% justify that citezens cannot be armed....by then, if the government is corrupt, it will be TOO LATE to do anything about it. [quote]ddonovan said: “I can tell you why we aren’t asking why anymore. The ones who can ask why have too much to lose to make a point. I can’t afford to spend time in jail for telling the TSA bot that I’m taking my nail clippers on the plane, the law be damned. All that will happen is I’ll miss my flight and have a big mess to dig myself out of. Maybe I’ll even get myself on the news for it, and when my company finds out about it I’ll be signing up for a bout of unemployment until it is long forgotten. It’s great to be young and cocky and debt-free, living in your parents’ basement and having nothing to lose, but when you’ve got a job, a mortgage, and a car payment, living within the boundaries of the law is simply the least costly way to live your life. Add in a wife and kids, and your responsibilities to yourself and to your family far outweigh your desire (or your time and money) to right any injustices of the world. As Mel Gibson so eloquently put it in “The Patriot”: “I’m a father, I haven’t the luxury of principles.” As I would put it, “I’ve got bills to pay, I cannot afford to take the time off to save the world.” Even worse, we are so naive and misguided about the world in our early adult years – when we can still afford to save the world – that even if we could fix things, we’d fix all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons.”[/quote]

More Kudos.

The worry is that rights will be peeled away while no new freedoms are given and that it will be done in such a way that no one will notice (or get upset) until it is too late. Much like a Frog who is slowly boiled alive…will we notice the danger before the temperature is too high? When someone says its time to jump out will we call them crazy? or borrow their courage and jump out too?
Tomorrows world may 100% justify that citezens cannot be armed….by then, if the government is corrupt, it will be TOO LATE to do anything about it.

]]> By: ValiantDefender http://www.damninteresting.com/do-what-youre-told#comment-23722 ValiantDefender Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:44:04 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=242#comment-23722 [quote]Drakvil said: "Chaos means maximum freedom? If chaos reigned there would be no laws. So anyone bigger than you could come to your house, kick the door in, sodomize you and take anything they wanted. And you would try to fight back, try to find the guy later, maybe succeed in killing him and getting your stuff back, maybe get yourself killed instead. All free… you'd be lucky to get any friends to help you in this and there wouldn't be any authorities to back up either side. With your theory you are trading more freedom of one kind for a lot less freedom of many other kinds. I think what the experiment is showing is that people are not taught enough about critical thinking, questioning why they are doing things, and the results of their actions. To one degree or another everyone is guilty of that - what is now a college course in critical thinking ought to be moved to the High School or Jr. High School level."[/quote] Kudos. I Agree with everything you wrote. There are too many people that think the rules limit freedom. This simply isn't true. Moral values may inhibit someone from making a choice (the percieved loss of freedom) but this allows them to remain free of many other things: drug addiction, std, unwanted pregnancy, guilt, etc. It comes down to a weighing of the options especially because the equation MUST include the reaction to every action we take. Some choices taken may severely limit other choices. Some choices I may want to make may limit someone else's choices. Some choices you make may limit MY choices. In chaos, the whoever prevails by whatever means wins. There can be no "fair" or "unfair" in chaos. It all boils down to selfish vs unselfish. If people were 100% unselfish then no "rules" would be necessary. We would build houses for eachother, teach eachother, share our food, etc without need for the eschange of money. The casual observer might say they see a very finely orchestrated chaos. We are NOT 100% unselfish, nor do I think we are capable of such. Even if HALF the people were 100% unselfish such a system would eventually fail. The unselfish side would be depleted by the selfish side and fail. SO, we have rules. Rules limit some personal freedoms in hopes of granting greater basic freedoms to more people. So we have a bill of rights, freedom from fear, tyranny, etc. But to do so, we have to limit chaos and introduce order. No raping your neighbors...this would be alienating his rights and is punishable by law. In the expirament, it would seem that the "teachers" are giving up their freedom of thought in an attempt to be free from responsibility. If they questioned the White Lab coat, then he would have to think and as such would have some responsibility to report that such unethical treatment had taken place. -btw- I don't buy the whole "chaos is the rule of the universe" There are simply so many laws and rules being inacted that are beyond our current comprehension that it appears to be chaos. [quote]Drakvil said: “Chaos means maximum freedom? If chaos reigned there would be no laws. So anyone bigger than you could come to your house, kick the door in, sodomize you and take anything they wanted. And you would try to fight back, try to find the guy later, maybe succeed in killing him and getting your stuff back, maybe get yourself killed instead. All free… you’d be lucky to get any friends to help you in this and there wouldn’t be any authorities to back up either side.

With your theory you are trading more freedom of one kind for a lot less freedom of many other kinds.

I think what the experiment is showing is that people are not taught enough about critical thinking, questioning why they are doing things, and the results of their actions. To one degree or another everyone is guilty of that – what is now a college course in critical thinking ought to be moved to the High School or Jr. High School level.”[/quote]

Kudos. I Agree with everything you wrote.

There are too many people that think the rules limit freedom. This simply isn’t true.
Moral values may inhibit someone from making a choice (the percieved loss of freedom) but this allows them to remain free of many other things: drug addiction, std, unwanted pregnancy, guilt, etc.

It comes down to a weighing of the options especially because the equation MUST include the reaction to every action we take. Some choices taken may severely limit other choices. Some choices I may want to make may limit someone else’s choices. Some choices you make may limit MY choices. In chaos, the whoever prevails by whatever means wins. There can be no “fair” or “unfair” in chaos.

It all boils down to selfish vs unselfish.

If people were 100% unselfish then no “rules” would be necessary. We would build houses for eachother, teach eachother, share our food, etc without need for the eschange of money. The casual observer might say they see a very finely orchestrated chaos.

We are NOT 100% unselfish, nor do I think we are capable of such. Even if HALF the people were 100% unselfish such a system would eventually fail. The unselfish side would be depleted by the selfish side and fail. SO, we have rules. Rules limit some personal freedoms in hopes of granting greater basic freedoms to more people. So we have a bill of rights, freedom from fear, tyranny, etc. But to do so, we have to limit chaos and introduce order. No raping your neighbors…this would be alienating his rights and is punishable by law.

In the expirament, it would seem that the “teachers” are giving up their freedom of thought in an attempt to be free from responsibility. If they questioned the White Lab coat, then he would have to think and as such would have some responsibility to report that such unethical treatment had taken place.

-btw- I don’t buy the whole “chaos is the rule of the universe” There are simply so many laws and rules being inacted that are beyond our current comprehension that it appears to be chaos.

]]> By: Correct me if I'm wrong, but: http://www.damninteresting.com/do-what-youre-told#comment-23510 Correct me if I'm wrong, but: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:43:09 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=242#comment-23510 [quote]Dementia said: "Someone should try replicating this experiment but factoring in charisma - that is, will more people obey someone who's better-looking or friendlier-seeming? I've observed this phenomenon in my own life… A good friend of mine is depressed, paranoid, misanthropic, and all-around mentally ill - however, he's good-looking, self-assured, smart, and a great actor. Thus he can get anyone to listen to him and like him, and his friends will all obey him without question, even if it means doing something they normally wouldn't do, like acting against one of their own friends or stealing. I'm his girlfriend, and I follow him around like a dog. Yeah, I'm dating this guy. Proof of how effective charisma can be."[/quote] This guys sounds eerily close to a psychopathic profile.... [quote]Dementia said: “Someone should try replicating this experiment but factoring in charisma – that is, will more people obey someone who’s better-looking or friendlier-seeming?
I’ve observed this phenomenon in my own life… A good friend of mine is depressed, paranoid, misanthropic, and all-around mentally ill – however, he’s good-looking, self-assured, smart, and a great actor. Thus he can get anyone to listen to him and like him, and his friends will all obey him without question, even if it means doing something they normally wouldn’t do, like acting against one of their own friends or stealing. I’m his girlfriend, and I follow him around like a dog. Yeah, I’m dating this guy. Proof of how effective charisma can be.”[/quote]

This guys sounds eerily close to a psychopathic profile….

]]> By: BenKinsey http://www.damninteresting.com/do-what-youre-told#comment-22976 BenKinsey Wed, 01 Oct 2008 15:05:48 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=242#comment-22976 Thanks for the link TCChris. It is amazing to see how weak people are. It is one thing to just not care if the person is being hurt and another to want to stop but continue just because you are too weak to confront an authority figure. Where they afraid that they weren't going to get paid if they refused to continue? Thanks for the link TCChris. It is amazing to see how weak people are. It is one thing to just not care if the person is being hurt and another to want to stop but continue just because you are too weak to confront an authority figure. Where they afraid that they weren’t going to get paid if they refused to continue?

]]> By: TCChris http://www.damninteresting.com/do-what-youre-told#comment-19226 TCChris Wed, 02 Jan 2008 01:27:25 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=242#comment-19226 Here is a link to a reproduction of the Milgram Experiment, and indeed, well said ddonovan. http://youtube.com/watch?v=y6GxIuljT3w Here is a link to a reproduction of the Milgram Experiment, and indeed, well said ddonovan.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y6GxIuljT3w

]]> By: Mez http://www.damninteresting.com/do-what-youre-told#comment-16716 Mez Wed, 08 Aug 2007 13:01:06 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=242#comment-16716 <p>Well said, ddonovan!</p> Well said, ddonovan!

]]> By: ddonovan http://www.damninteresting.com/do-what-youre-told#comment-16706 ddonovan Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:36:52 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=242#comment-16706 <p>I can tell you why we aren't asking why anymore. The ones who can ask why have too much to lose to make a point. I can't afford to spend time in jail for telling the TSA bot that I'm taking my nail clippers on the plane, the law be damned. All that will happen is I'll miss my flight and have a big mess to dig myself out of. Maybe I'll even get myself on the news for it, and when my company finds out about it I'll be signing up for a bout of unemployment until it is long forgotten. It's great to be young and cocky and debt-free, living in your parents' basement and having nothing to lose, but when you've got a job, a mortgage, and a car payment, living within the boundaries of the law is simply the least costly way to live your life. Add in a wife and kids, and your responsibilities to yourself and to your family far outweigh your desire (or your time and money) to right any injustices of the world. As Mel Gibson so eloquently put it in "The Patriot": "I'm a father, I haven't the luxury of principles." As I would put it, "I've got bills to pay, I cannot afford to take the time off to save the world." Even worse, we are so naive and misguided about the world in our early adult years - when we can still afford to save the world - that even if we could fix things, we'd fix all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons.</p> I can tell you why we aren’t asking why anymore. The ones who can ask why have too much to lose to make a point. I can’t afford to spend time in jail for telling the TSA bot that I’m taking my nail clippers on the plane, the law be damned. All that will happen is I’ll miss my flight and have a big mess to dig myself out of. Maybe I’ll even get myself on the news for it, and when my company finds out about it I’ll be signing up for a bout of unemployment until it is long forgotten. It’s great to be young and cocky and debt-free, living in your parents’ basement and having nothing to lose, but when you’ve got a job, a mortgage, and a car payment, living within the boundaries of the law is simply the least costly way to live your life. Add in a wife and kids, and your responsibilities to yourself and to your family far outweigh your desire (or your time and money) to right any injustices of the world. As Mel Gibson so eloquently put it in “The Patriot”: “I’m a father, I haven’t the luxury of principles.” As I would put it, “I’ve got bills to pay, I cannot afford to take the time off to save the world.” Even worse, we are so naive and misguided about the world in our early adult years – when we can still afford to save the world – that even if we could fix things, we’d fix all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons.

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