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	<title>Comments on: Extinction of the Passenger Pigeons</title>
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	<description>A collection of Damn Interesting things</description>
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		<title>By: fluke</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/extinction-of-the-passenger-pigeons#comment-22615</link>
		<dc:creator>fluke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=603#comment-22615</guid>
		<description>From all sides of the arguement the extinction of a species is a bad thing.
For a species to be successfull it needs to live in harmony with its environment or the self desstruction of its environment will leed to its demise ( this could be mankinds downfall ).

If you love to kill animals, leave some for others to kill, have respect for your fellow and future hunters or youre not a true hunter.

If you like animals, protect them for future generations to like.

Who knows? the cure for terminal illnesses may be buried with the last of a dead species.

The people who shot the last lot of birds new they were going to be extinct but did so anyway.
We havent changed a bit and we havent learned a thing, only very very recently we killed an etire species of black rhino.

Trying to convince some people that a species has the right to exist is like trying to convince Hitler that Jews have a right to exist, and had he succeeded there probably would have been people posting messages stating how they find it hard to have sympathy for the extinct people.

Its better to hunt and eat a wild animal that has had a life of freedom than pay people to raise battery farmed animals fed on hormones and steroids, but do so humanely in respectful moderation.

If anything I have said has been hypocritical I don&#039;t care, if I were scared of being a hypocrit I would be scared to change my mind and would thus be narrow minded.

This discussion reminds me of the film &quot;hard target&quot;, where men were hunted for sport and scenes in the film featured john woo&#039;s trademark pidgeons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From all sides of the arguement the extinction of a species is a bad thing.<br />
For a species to be successfull it needs to live in harmony with its environment or the self desstruction of its environment will leed to its demise ( this could be mankinds downfall ).</p>
<p>If you love to kill animals, leave some for others to kill, have respect for your fellow and future hunters or youre not a true hunter.</p>
<p>If you like animals, protect them for future generations to like.</p>
<p>Who knows? the cure for terminal illnesses may be buried with the last of a dead species.</p>
<p>The people who shot the last lot of birds new they were going to be extinct but did so anyway.<br />
We havent changed a bit and we havent learned a thing, only very very recently we killed an etire species of black rhino.</p>
<p>Trying to convince some people that a species has the right to exist is like trying to convince Hitler that Jews have a right to exist, and had he succeeded there probably would have been people posting messages stating how they find it hard to have sympathy for the extinct people.</p>
<p>Its better to hunt and eat a wild animal that has had a life of freedom than pay people to raise battery farmed animals fed on hormones and steroids, but do so humanely in respectful moderation.</p>
<p>If anything I have said has been hypocritical I don&#8217;t care, if I were scared of being a hypocrit I would be scared to change my mind and would thus be narrow minded.</p>
<p>This discussion reminds me of the film &#8220;hard target&#8221;, where men were hunted for sport and scenes in the film featured john woo&#8217;s trademark pidgeons.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill N</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/extinction-of-the-passenger-pigeons#comment-20706</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill N</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=603#comment-20706</guid>
		<description>Its incorrect to say the passenger pigeon didnt breed in captivity it was 
bred by Professor Whitman of Chicagio in 1904 on a number of occasions 
as it was elsewhere but in-breeding was endemic as each pigeon fancier did not seek fresh blood ,and there was no national register or recovery plan  involving captive breeding . Professor&#039;s Whitman&#039;s passenger pigeon collection declined to one . Martha the last passenger pigeon and he donated her  to Cincinnato zoo  where they had a male but he was too old to breed.
due to</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its incorrect to say the passenger pigeon didnt breed in captivity it was<br />
bred by Professor Whitman of Chicagio in 1904 on a number of occasions<br />
as it was elsewhere but in-breeding was endemic as each pigeon fancier did not seek fresh blood ,and there was no national register or recovery plan  involving captive breeding . Professor&#8217;s Whitman&#8217;s passenger pigeon collection declined to one . Martha the last passenger pigeon and he donated her  to Cincinnato zoo  where they had a male but he was too old to breed.<br />
due to</p>
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		<title>By: dogu4</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/extinction-of-the-passenger-pigeons#comment-16386</link>
		<dc:creator>dogu4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 18:47:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=603#comment-16386</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Fascinating story, and one that I&#039;ve long wondered about. Recently I came across speculation that prior to the eradication of about 90% of Native Americans following their exposure to European diseases, these tribal people who long cultivated or &quot;husbanded&quot; the &quot;wild-lands&quot; also limitd the pigeons&#039; ability to overrun their habitat.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;There are many tales in the de-wilding of the New World that are largely un-reported since basic  biology, let alone ecology as we know it, were yet to be practiced scientifically. A tremendous example has been documented in Farley Mowat&#039;s &quot;Sea of Slaughter&quot; in which he recounts the exterpation of the Esquimo Curlew , just one of many less well known than the famous Passenger Pigeon,which at one time likewise numbered in the billions following a migration path that reached from Alaska to Newfoundland to the Caribbean.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating story, and one that I&#8217;ve long wondered about. Recently I came across speculation that prior to the eradication of about 90% of Native Americans following their exposure to European diseases, these tribal people who long cultivated or &#8220;husbanded&#8221; the &#8220;wild-lands&#8221; also limitd the pigeons&#8217; ability to overrun their habitat.</p>
<p>There are many tales in the de-wilding of the New World that are largely un-reported since basic  biology, let alone ecology as we know it, were yet to be practiced scientifically. A tremendous example has been documented in Farley Mowat&#8217;s &#8220;Sea of Slaughter&#8221; in which he recounts the exterpation of the Esquimo Curlew , just one of many less well known than the famous Passenger Pigeon,which at one time likewise numbered in the billions following a migration path that reached from Alaska to Newfoundland to the Caribbean.</p>
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		<title>By: spencer</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/extinction-of-the-passenger-pigeons#comment-16375</link>
		<dc:creator>spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=603#comment-16375</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You know who all the animal rights people  should really be worried about.  Lions!!!!  Have you ever seen a Lion kill a gazelle.  That is the most inhuman thing I have ever seen.  Once they dig their teeth into its neck they just kinda hang out with it until it dies a slow horrific death,  or they start eating it before it&#039;s dead.  The point I&#039;m trying to make here is that it&#039;s OK for humans to kill animals, or for other animals to kill animals!!!  It&#039;s how things work!!!  If you are a vegetarian because you think killing and eating animals is bad (I know vegetarians that just dont like the taste of meat) than you are living in a dream world.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;

The way I see things is that believing in God or not is what really distinguishes people.  For example,  If you do not believe in God than we are just really smart Apes!!  So what right do we have to take land away from other animals or kill them or make them our slaves?  If you do believe in God than you believe all animals were created for us and we have rights that they don&#039;t have like the right to not be killed.     &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know who all the animal rights people  should really be worried about.  Lions!!!!  Have you ever seen a Lion kill a gazelle.  That is the most inhuman thing I have ever seen.  Once they dig their teeth into its neck they just kinda hang out with it until it dies a slow horrific death,  or they start eating it before it&#8217;s dead.  The point I&#8217;m trying to make here is that it&#8217;s OK for humans to kill animals, or for other animals to kill animals!!!  It&#8217;s how things work!!!  If you are a vegetarian because you think killing and eating animals is bad (I know vegetarians that just dont like the taste of meat) than you are living in a dream world.  </p>
<p>The way I see things is that believing in God or not is what really distinguishes people.  For example,  If you do not believe in God than we are just really smart Apes!!  So what right do we have to take land away from other animals or kill them or make them our slaves?  If you do believe in God than you believe all animals were created for us and we have rights that they don&#8217;t have like the right to not be killed.     </p>
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		<title>By: Radiatidon</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/extinction-of-the-passenger-pigeons#comment-16366</link>
		<dc:creator>Radiatidon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=603#comment-16366</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;Prince said: &quot;why are they called passenger pigeons?&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;
I wondered this myself.  So I looked up the scientific name for this creature.  It is Ectopistes Migratorius.  The breakdown of the Latin is as follows – Ecto means “outside” while piste is Italian for “trail”.  Thus you could say that Ectopistes roughly translates to wanderer.  Now the second word Migratorius is Latin that translates as “to move or change location periodically.”

So why is it called/described by this name as the migratory wanderer.  As noted in the article the population of a single flock could deplete the resources of anyone area in a short time, so a new nesting ground would have to be found.  This is a classic example of a species out-of-control.  As noted by another poster the scientific community believes, based on evidence (or lack thereof, of pigeon remains in pre-European Native American communities.  With such an easy and plentiful food source, there should have been heaps of pigeon bones in community offal or fire pits, which there is not.  There are signs of other birds and small animals though) that this animal flourished due to the demise of its main predator.

Anyway the flock would have no main nesting ground as other migratory birds do.  Thus would wander from site-to-site, which is unusual for an avian. This still did not clear up the name for me.  So I explored the various European groups and discovered that the French called them “Pigeón de passage&quot; that translates into Pigeon of passage, which they referred to them due to the astounding number of birds in the sky at anytime.  English speakers later mispronounced the name as the Passenger Pigeon.
&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='quote'>Prince said: &#8220;why are they called passenger pigeons?&#8221;</span></p>
<p>
I wondered this myself.  So I looked up the scientific name for this creature.  It is Ectopistes Migratorius.  The breakdown of the Latin is as follows – Ecto means “outside” while piste is Italian for “trail”.  Thus you could say that Ectopistes roughly translates to wanderer.  Now the second word Migratorius is Latin that translates as “to move or change location periodically.”</p>
<p>So why is it called/described by this name as the migratory wanderer.  As noted in the article the population of a single flock could deplete the resources of anyone area in a short time, so a new nesting ground would have to be found.  This is a classic example of a species out-of-control.  As noted by another poster the scientific community believes, based on evidence (or lack thereof, of pigeon remains in pre-European Native American communities.  With such an easy and plentiful food source, there should have been heaps of pigeon bones in community offal or fire pits, which there is not.  There are signs of other birds and small animals though) that this animal flourished due to the demise of its main predator.</p>
<p>Anyway the flock would have no main nesting ground as other migratory birds do.  Thus would wander from site-to-site, which is unusual for an avian. This still did not clear up the name for me.  So I explored the various European groups and discovered that the French called them “Pigeón de passage&#8221; that translates into Pigeon of passage, which they referred to them due to the astounding number of birds in the sky at anytime.  English speakers later mispronounced the name as the Passenger Pigeon.</p>
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		<title>By: Gortlesnort</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/extinction-of-the-passenger-pigeons#comment-15569</link>
		<dc:creator>Gortlesnort</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=603#comment-15569</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think there are still some Passenger Pigeons out there. I think we underestimated the adaptability of the species and some migrated to remote locations, and I don&#039;t think anyone&#039;s been looking really hard for the last 70 years or so.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are still some Passenger Pigeons out there. I think we underestimated the adaptability of the species and some migrated to remote locations, and I don&#8217;t think anyone&#8217;s been looking really hard for the last 70 years or so.</p>
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		<title>By: CHRISLAV</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/extinction-of-the-passenger-pigeons#comment-8797</link>
		<dc:creator>CHRISLAV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Sep 2006 04:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=603#comment-8797</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think hunters are taking a bit of an unfair hit here..I consider myself an ethical hunter, i see nothing wrong with taking a game animal which will be used/consumed and controls the population, plus hunters contribute millions every year to public lands and wildlife..IN NO WAY do I consider these people that kill multitudes of any animals for any of the reasons given in the article &quot;hunters&quot;..this is opportunistic killing at its worst...obviously there was not a strong sense of conservation involved with the extinction of these birds..yeah, there would be alot of morons running out there front doors with shotguns today if the government told them that a certain species needing &quot;eradicating&quot; ..for those who killed the birds for their families to eat, so what? as long as they didn&#039;t kill 5,000 to eat 20 or 30 birds, but lets face it, it was a fully accepted mass killing that took place by everyone and anyone with a gun,club,fire,flyswatter,etc..I do not agree that it was part of a &quot;natural selection&quot; that they are gone, they may have been &quot;pests&quot; to humans in some way but don&#039;t forget that they played a role in the food chain as well, all those predators that preyed on the &quot;squabs&quot; certainly had to have been affected, right??       &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think hunters are taking a bit of an unfair hit here..I consider myself an ethical hunter, i see nothing wrong with taking a game animal which will be used/consumed and controls the population, plus hunters contribute millions every year to public lands and wildlife..IN NO WAY do I consider these people that kill multitudes of any animals for any of the reasons given in the article &#8220;hunters&#8221;..this is opportunistic killing at its worst&#8230;obviously there was not a strong sense of conservation involved with the extinction of these birds..yeah, there would be alot of morons running out there front doors with shotguns today if the government told them that a certain species needing &#8220;eradicating&#8221; ..for those who killed the birds for their families to eat, so what? as long as they didn&#8217;t kill 5,000 to eat 20 or 30 birds, but lets face it, it was a fully accepted mass killing that took place by everyone and anyone with a gun,club,fire,flyswatter,etc..I do not agree that it was part of a &#8220;natural selection&#8221; that they are gone, they may have been &#8220;pests&#8221; to humans in some way but don&#8217;t forget that they played a role in the food chain as well, all those predators that preyed on the &#8220;squabs&#8221; certainly had to have been affected, right??       </p>
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		<title>By: Drakvil</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/extinction-of-the-passenger-pigeons#comment-7425</link>
		<dc:creator>Drakvil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 07:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=603#comment-7425</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;devnull said: &quot;   I hear there is a pigeon statue up there some where commemorating the birds.&quot;   &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Do people perch on it and leave droppings all over it?
Pigeons do it on statues of people...&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='quote'>devnull said: &#8221;   I hear there is a pigeon statue up there some where commemorating the birds.&#8221;   </span></p>
<p>Do people perch on it and leave droppings all over it?<br />
Pigeons do it on statues of people&#8230;</p>
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