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	<title>Comments on: Rapatronic Nuclear Photographs</title>
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	<description>A collection of Damn Interesting things</description>
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		<title>By: allanwhite</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/rapatronic-nuclear-photographs/#comment-25573</link>
		<dc:creator>allanwhite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-25573</guid>
		<description>The &quot;rope trick effect&quot;, as I recall, is the wires fluorescing (essentially turning into plasma) from the gamma (or was it X-ray?) burst, which precedes the visual effects by a few picoseconds (or is it femtoseconds?). I&#039;m sure it&#039;s on wikipedia...

Ehh, just read it, apparently it&#039;s thermal shock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;rope trick effect&#8221;, as I recall, is the wires fluorescing (essentially turning into plasma) from the gamma (or was it X-ray?) burst, which precedes the visual effects by a few picoseconds (or is it femtoseconds?). I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s on wikipedia&#8230;</p>
<p>Ehh, just read it, apparently it&#8217;s thermal shock.</p>
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		<title>By: Leighther</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/rapatronic-nuclear-photographs/#comment-10121</link>
		<dc:creator>Leighther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-10121</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;gypse: I think they used to launch rockets to leave smoke trails in the air before detonating the A-bomb,
the smoke trails would show the effect of the shockwave in the air.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gypse: I think they used to launch rockets to leave smoke trails in the air before detonating the A-bomb,<br />
the smoke trails would show the effect of the shockwave in the air.</p>
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		<title>By: gypse</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/rapatronic-nuclear-photographs/#comment-9585</link>
		<dc:creator>gypse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 05:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-9585</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;lol them 3 little lines in the lower right hand corner sorry im at fault i was trying to jump start my space ship where was the engerizer bunny when i needed him??&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;

  ps  dont mind me  just a freak of nature any way but  the pic&#039;s are pritty cool!
                                                                                                         gypse.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol them 3 little lines in the lower right hand corner sorry im at fault i was trying to jump start my space ship where was the engerizer bunny when i needed him??</p>
<p>  ps  dont mind me  just a freak of nature any way but  the pic&#8217;s are pritty cool!<br />
                                                                                                         gypse.</p>
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		<title>By: Dayton92</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/rapatronic-nuclear-photographs/#comment-9342</link>
		<dc:creator>Dayton92</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-9342</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m still puzzled by something in the picture, and I&#039;ve seen it before in photos of nuclear explosions.  In bottom righthand quadrant of the picture there are about 5 sort of vertical lines.  Now, if I&#039;m understanding the rope trick effect properly, those are the spike-like protrusions on the fireball.  So what are these lines we&#039;re seeing?  Anybody have an explanation?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still puzzled by something in the picture, and I&#8217;ve seen it before in photos of nuclear explosions.  In bottom righthand quadrant of the picture there are about 5 sort of vertical lines.  Now, if I&#8217;m understanding the rope trick effect properly, those are the spike-like protrusions on the fireball.  So what are these lines we&#8217;re seeing?  Anybody have an explanation?</p>
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		<title>By: LBruce</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/rapatronic-nuclear-photographs/#comment-9279</link>
		<dc:creator>LBruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 05:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-9279</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I love having the chance to speculate before bothering to learn why it&#039;s wrong...&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I&#039;d never heard of the Kerr Effect, but a rotation of 90 degs is mentioned for these cameras. Given the intensity of light from a bomb blast, it seems one would only need rotate the polarizati0n the tiniest bit. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love having the chance to speculate before bothering to learn why it&#8217;s wrong&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d never heard of the Kerr Effect, but a rotation of 90 degs is mentioned for these cameras. Given the intensity of light from a bomb blast, it seems one would only need rotate the polarizati0n the tiniest bit. </p>
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		<title>By: Drakvil</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/rapatronic-nuclear-photographs/#comment-9265</link>
		<dc:creator>Drakvil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 07:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-9265</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;superdude882 said: &quot;wow didn&#039;t realize they were 3times as hot as the sun…question though. how far is the sun from us and how hot is it? i mean with it so far away it&#039;s already burning hot on a sunny day, if the bombs are so hot wouldn&#039;t they pretty much destroy the earth badly? and the cameras would be able to survive on the sun then? since they can withstand something hotter than 3 suns it should be able to take on one?&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Admiral Dread did a good job providing the temperature you were asking about, so I&#039;ll pick up some of the other stuff.  The sun is, on average, about 98,000,000 miles from the Earth.  The reason a nuke doesn&#039;t destroy the Earth with the temperatures generated is that the amount of energy released in total is inconsequential compared to that of the Sun, and is a very localized event.  The Sun&#039;s diameter is roughly 870,000 miles while the Earth has a diameter of a little under 8,000 miles.  So the 2-dimensional area of the photosphere of the sun facing the Earth is roughly 594,166,500,000 square miles - radiating heat at about 5,800K over that entire surface (and the corona of the Sun has temperatures reaching at times up to a million K... and since the corona of the sun is outside of the photosphere, it has an even larger surface area).  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The size of the fireball from a nuke is incredibly smaller than that (if it were a 20 mile diameter fireball, the 2D surface area would be 314 miles, or nine decimal places smaller than the Sun and divided by a constant) and maintains that temperature for a very short time.   If it were somehow able to maintain that temperature for an extended amount of time, trouble could very well ensue.  You can pass your hand through a flame, but the short duration keeps you from getting a burn.  Keep your hand there for a minute.... you get the picture.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='quote'>superdude882 said: &#8220;wow didn&#8217;t realize they were 3times as hot as the sun…question though. how far is the sun from us and how hot is it? i mean with it so far away it&#8217;s already burning hot on a sunny day, if the bombs are so hot wouldn&#8217;t they pretty much destroy the earth badly? and the cameras would be able to survive on the sun then? since they can withstand something hotter than 3 suns it should be able to take on one?&#8221;</span></p>
<p>Admiral Dread did a good job providing the temperature you were asking about, so I&#8217;ll pick up some of the other stuff.  The sun is, on average, about 98,000,000 miles from the Earth.  The reason a nuke doesn&#8217;t destroy the Earth with the temperatures generated is that the amount of energy released in total is inconsequential compared to that of the Sun, and is a very localized event.  The Sun&#8217;s diameter is roughly 870,000 miles while the Earth has a diameter of a little under 8,000 miles.  So the 2-dimensional area of the photosphere of the sun facing the Earth is roughly 594,166,500,000 square miles &#8211; radiating heat at about 5,800K over that entire surface (and the corona of the Sun has temperatures reaching at times up to a million K&#8230; and since the corona of the sun is outside of the photosphere, it has an even larger surface area).  </p>
<p>The size of the fireball from a nuke is incredibly smaller than that (if it were a 20 mile diameter fireball, the 2D surface area would be 314 miles, or nine decimal places smaller than the Sun and divided by a constant) and maintains that temperature for a very short time.   If it were somehow able to maintain that temperature for an extended amount of time, trouble could very well ensue.  You can pass your hand through a flame, but the short duration keeps you from getting a burn.  Keep your hand there for a minute&#8230;. you get the picture.</p>
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		<title>By: Floj</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/rapatronic-nuclear-photographs/#comment-9244</link>
		<dc:creator>Floj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-9244</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;Berkana said: &quot;. . . by the way, notice that I didn&#039;t need to understand any quantum mechanics to explain that. There is a lot of quantum mechanics involved in the study of polarization effects when you are dealing with individual photons, but polarization is easier than that and easily tractable for the most part if you approach it as a bunch of vectors to be dealt with using trigonometry and the pythagorian theorem.&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;
Ha! Nice Berkana. Einstein once said that if you couldn&#039;t explain something to a six year old then you don&#039;t truly understand it yourself. That quote was paraphrased but it gets the point across. I&#039;m looking forward to taking some modern physics myself. It&#039;ll be fun. Like pie. Alan should get some too. Nothing relieves the stress of a busy schedual like a nice big slice of pumpking pie with double scooped whip cream. mhmm.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='quote'>Berkana said: &#8220;. . . by the way, notice that I didn&#8217;t need to understand any quantum mechanics to explain that. There is a lot of quantum mechanics involved in the study of polarization effects when you are dealing with individual photons, but polarization is easier than that and easily tractable for the most part if you approach it as a bunch of vectors to be dealt with using trigonometry and the pythagorian theorem.&#8221;</span></p>
<p>
Ha! Nice Berkana. Einstein once said that if you couldn&#8217;t explain something to a six year old then you don&#8217;t truly understand it yourself. That quote was paraphrased but it gets the point across. I&#8217;m looking forward to taking some modern physics myself. It&#8217;ll be fun. Like pie. Alan should get some too. Nothing relieves the stress of a busy schedual like a nice big slice of pumpking pie with double scooped whip cream. mhmm.</p>
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		<title>By: ickster</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/rapatronic-nuclear-photographs/#comment-9232</link>
		<dc:creator>ickster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-9232</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;sh0cktopus said: &quot;I&#039;m curious how high-speed photography was used in a project for the postal service.  There doesn&#039;t seem to be an obvious connection there.&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;This is just a guess, but it could be related to the optical scanners that were developed for mail sorting. Not quite the same as photography, but to get an image sharp enough to be analyzed by OCR software from an envelope zipping through a slot probably requires a lot of the same kind of expertise.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='quote'>sh0cktopus said: &#8220;I&#8217;m curious how high-speed photography was used in a project for the postal service.  There doesn&#8217;t seem to be an obvious connection there.&#8221;</span></p>
<p>This is just a guess, but it could be related to the optical scanners that were developed for mail sorting. Not quite the same as photography, but to get an image sharp enough to be analyzed by OCR software from an envelope zipping through a slot probably requires a lot of the same kind of expertise.</p>
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		<title>By: sh0cktopus</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/rapatronic-nuclear-photographs/#comment-9231</link>
		<dc:creator>sh0cktopus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-9231</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m sure everyone has seen Edgerton&#039;s famous photographs of a milk drop and a bullet piercing an apple or balloon.  But this is something else.  Too bad we couldn&#039;t see these images through a rapatronic video camera.  Also, to jfl2:  I&#039;m curious how high-speed photography was used in a project for the postal service.  There doesn&#039;t seem to be an obvious connection there.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure everyone has seen Edgerton&#8217;s famous photographs of a milk drop and a bullet piercing an apple or balloon.  But this is something else.  Too bad we couldn&#8217;t see these images through a rapatronic video camera.  Also, to jfl2:  I&#8217;m curious how high-speed photography was used in a project for the postal service.  There doesn&#8217;t seem to be an obvious connection there.</p>
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		<title>By: elifint</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/rapatronic-nuclear-photographs/#comment-6800</link>
		<dc:creator>elifint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 01:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-6800</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A couple of things:&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;No matter has to move 100 feet for the size of the blast to reach 100 feet.  A lot of the energy is transferred by electromagnetic radiation (with a HUGE range of frequencies), which moves at the speed of light.  Be careful not to confuse the wave speed with the particle speed.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Also, about the polarization:  Nobody seems to be noticing the difference between amplitude and intensity.  But the latter (intensity, energy per area per time) is proportional to the square of the former (amplitude, peak electric field magnitude).  Everyone seems to be calculating amplitudes, and then saying that that&#039;s the fraction of the light that gets through.  That may be the fraction of the electric field, but the fraction of the energy (the same as the fraction of the photons, and usually taken to be the more meaningful quantity) is the square of that.  So if the stack of polarizers transmits, say, 70.7% of the amplitude, then half the light energy is getting through.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;A polarizer in effect eliminates all of the electric field in one direction but has no effect on the electric field in the other direction (perpendicular to the first direction).  With this fact, the cosine function, and knowing that energy is proportional to electric field squared, you can solve all of these problems.  A fun exercise is to see how high the transmittance can get if you can insert a very large number of polarizers in between the crossed polarizers.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Describing the same event in terms of photons is a little more complicated but gives the same answer in the end.  Part of the problem is that there&#039;s more than one &quot;consistent history,&quot; i.e. more than one logically and mathematically correct series of classical-like events that could be chosen to describe the quantum mechanical process, and the various histories are mutually inconsistent.  What&#039;s the difference between a set of photons that are all randomly polarized and a set of photons that are all either x or y polarized, with 50% probability of each, and no correlations?  If I&#039;m not mistaken, they have the same density operator, so there is in principle no way to distinguish them.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of things:</p>
<p>No matter has to move 100 feet for the size of the blast to reach 100 feet.  A lot of the energy is transferred by electromagnetic radiation (with a HUGE range of frequencies), which moves at the speed of light.  Be careful not to confuse the wave speed with the particle speed.</p>
<p>Also, about the polarization:  Nobody seems to be noticing the difference between amplitude and intensity.  But the latter (intensity, energy per area per time) is proportional to the square of the former (amplitude, peak electric field magnitude).  Everyone seems to be calculating amplitudes, and then saying that that&#8217;s the fraction of the light that gets through.  That may be the fraction of the electric field, but the fraction of the energy (the same as the fraction of the photons, and usually taken to be the more meaningful quantity) is the square of that.  So if the stack of polarizers transmits, say, 70.7% of the amplitude, then half the light energy is getting through.</p>
<p>A polarizer in effect eliminates all of the electric field in one direction but has no effect on the electric field in the other direction (perpendicular to the first direction).  With this fact, the cosine function, and knowing that energy is proportional to electric field squared, you can solve all of these problems.  A fun exercise is to see how high the transmittance can get if you can insert a very large number of polarizers in between the crossed polarizers.</p>
<p>Describing the same event in terms of photons is a little more complicated but gives the same answer in the end.  Part of the problem is that there&#8217;s more than one &#8220;consistent history,&#8221; i.e. more than one logically and mathematically correct series of classical-like events that could be chosen to describe the quantum mechanical process, and the various histories are mutually inconsistent.  What&#8217;s the difference between a set of photons that are all randomly polarized and a set of photons that are all either x or y polarized, with 50% probability of each, and no correlations?  If I&#8217;m not mistaken, they have the same density operator, so there is in principle no way to distinguish them.</p>
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