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	<title>Comments on: Running Out of Oil</title>
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	<description>A collection of Damn Interesting things</description>
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		<title>By: stholas</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/running-out-of-oil#comment-24991</link>
		<dc:creator>stholas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=36#comment-24991</guid>
		<description>The EPA definitely makes it very expensive for businesses to turn a profit. I&#039;ve done this analysis myself in a &#039;Capital Investment and Economic Analysis&#039; course I took. Frikking difficult course too, and I fully expected to fail it (I didn&#039;t!). However, I will say that the ideal solution to this is a worlwide acceptance of higher environmental standards that makes it easier for American industries to compete. Merely ignoring the impacts of industrialization on the environment will be, well, disastrous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The EPA definitely makes it very expensive for businesses to turn a profit. I&#8217;ve done this analysis myself in a &#8216;Capital Investment and Economic Analysis&#8217; course I took. Frikking difficult course too, and I fully expected to fail it (I didn&#8217;t!). However, I will say that the ideal solution to this is a worlwide acceptance of higher environmental standards that makes it easier for American industries to compete. Merely ignoring the impacts of industrialization on the environment will be, well, disastrous.</p>
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		<title>By: IncoherentPerson</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/running-out-of-oil#comment-21924</link>
		<dc:creator>IncoherentPerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=36#comment-21924</guid>
		<description>Wow, controversial topic. I doubt anyone will read this all the way down here.
Damn interesting. The reason my environmental science teacher provided as to why no refineries have been built is because of the EPA. The Clean Air Act and other regulations make it very expensive to run new refineries (and power plants). I&#039;m not sure if it applies to refineries as well, but only power plants built since the Clean Air Act have to obey all the rules.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, controversial topic. I doubt anyone will read this all the way down here.<br />
Damn interesting. The reason my environmental science teacher provided as to why no refineries have been built is because of the EPA. The Clean Air Act and other regulations make it very expensive to run new refineries (and power plants). I&#8217;m not sure if it applies to refineries as well, but only power plants built since the Clean Air Act have to obey all the rules.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/running-out-of-oil#comment-21528</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 04:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=36#comment-21528</guid>
		<description>I recently wrote my capstone research paper for my Economics degree on a cost benefit analysis of ethanol bio fuel feed stock sources.  I can honestly say after 6 months of research there really is no need to fear &quot;the crash&quot;.  As the price of gasoline continues to rise ethanol production becomes more and more feasible, not just from corn but also from cellulosic ethanol production.  Or to put it in words that don&#039;t involve &quot;cellulosic&quot;, anything organic that is not used as a food crop, or non-edible portions of a food crop.  Think timber waste, plant stalks, etc.  These means of production were prohibitively expensive ten years ago, not so now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently wrote my capstone research paper for my Economics degree on a cost benefit analysis of ethanol bio fuel feed stock sources.  I can honestly say after 6 months of research there really is no need to fear &#8220;the crash&#8221;.  As the price of gasoline continues to rise ethanol production becomes more and more feasible, not just from corn but also from cellulosic ethanol production.  Or to put it in words that don&#8217;t involve &#8220;cellulosic&#8221;, anything organic that is not used as a food crop, or non-edible portions of a food crop.  Think timber waste, plant stalks, etc.  These means of production were prohibitively expensive ten years ago, not so now.</p>
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		<title>By: Truth-Engineer</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/running-out-of-oil#comment-15746</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth-Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=36#comment-15746</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It will be interesting to see how increased CO2 levels affect (or are affected by) average global temperature. In a few mathematically fundamental cases, causal relationships are not interdependant. Republican scientists argue that increased CO2 levels are caused by increasing global temperatures. Democratic scientists argue that our current, unprecidented CO2 levels will lead to a dramatic cycle and eventual ice-age.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;
A clear interdependence exists between CO2 levels and mean global temperature that has nothing to do with politics, business or other forms of personal interest; people are naturally concerned with self-preservation in many forms: greed, aknowledgement, self-righteousness and general bias; but these passions and concerns drive men to point out potential catastrophies and to feel the motivation to act on perhaps righteous presumptions.

Beyond economic reprecussions of an oil crunch, there may, in fact, be other significant dangers in buring an excessive amount of fossile fuels. To address both economic and environmental concerns, a very simple and very practical solution already exists.

EFFICIENCY. EFFICIENCY. EFFICIENCY... Should I say it again?

I&#039;m not talking about anything ridiculous here. You don&#039;t need to wash dishes with bath water or flush the toilet once a month. Nothing idiotic like that.

I&#039;m just saying that many industries need a good, swift kick in the ass with some very progressive government-imposed regulation. And it starts with efficiency.

Sullykid wrote:
&quot;The oil production as a bell curve model does not quite work for me. Oil production does not drive supply, the demand drives supply.&quot;

Well, that&#039;s not entirely true. The oil and auto industries have had a mutual understanding for years. So long as the US auto companies kept making gas guzzlers, OPEC would keep U.S. oil costs down. For over 40 years now, the fuel efficiency of cars has not changed a bit. Do you think 40 mpg is pretty good? Would you say 70 mpg is more than impressive? How about 300 mpg? Ridiculous? Unheard of? NOT SO! We&#039;ve the technology and the production expertise to affordably produce 300 mpg full-sized sedans. I should know. I am a mechanical engineer with experience in the area. And we&#039;ve known how to do it since the 70&#039;s. The technologies (nothing all that impressive) have not been implemented because of the various types of vehicles that use gasoline and the upper limit on their efficiency (boats, semis, trains)... think about it and consider inelastic demand.

So, Sullykid, demand does not necessarily drive supply here. Big oil controls both, but they are slowly losing their grip.

The problem here is monsterous, which is why it has been addressed so pussily (new word to describe congress - they act pussily). The stability of muslim nations, the auto industry, the plastics industry ... almost all industries, and global economies hinges  on the modest health and stability (beta) of the energy markets.

While a think another Great Depression is possible, and it could cause WWIII, I don&#039;t think it has to. We&#039;re smart. We already have alternative fuels and we know how to make efficient products efficiently. I think our present problem is the fact that we have so many frickin viable alternatives. We need to outline a course of action and go with it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will be interesting to see how increased CO2 levels affect (or are affected by) average global temperature. In a few mathematically fundamental cases, causal relationships are not interdependant. Republican scientists argue that increased CO2 levels are caused by increasing global temperatures. Democratic scientists argue that our current, unprecidented CO2 levels will lead to a dramatic cycle and eventual ice-age.</p>
<p>
A clear interdependence exists between CO2 levels and mean global temperature that has nothing to do with politics, business or other forms of personal interest; people are naturally concerned with self-preservation in many forms: greed, aknowledgement, self-righteousness and general bias; but these passions and concerns drive men to point out potential catastrophies and to feel the motivation to act on perhaps righteous presumptions.</p>
<p>Beyond economic reprecussions of an oil crunch, there may, in fact, be other significant dangers in buring an excessive amount of fossile fuels. To address both economic and environmental concerns, a very simple and very practical solution already exists.</p>
<p>EFFICIENCY. EFFICIENCY. EFFICIENCY&#8230; Should I say it again?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not talking about anything ridiculous here. You don&#8217;t need to wash dishes with bath water or flush the toilet once a month. Nothing idiotic like that.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just saying that many industries need a good, swift kick in the ass with some very progressive government-imposed regulation. And it starts with efficiency.</p>
<p>Sullykid wrote:<br />
&#8220;The oil production as a bell curve model does not quite work for me. Oil production does not drive supply, the demand drives supply.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, that&#8217;s not entirely true. The oil and auto industries have had a mutual understanding for years. So long as the US auto companies kept making gas guzzlers, OPEC would keep U.S. oil costs down. For over 40 years now, the fuel efficiency of cars has not changed a bit. Do you think 40 mpg is pretty good? Would you say 70 mpg is more than impressive? How about 300 mpg? Ridiculous? Unheard of? NOT SO! We&#8217;ve the technology and the production expertise to affordably produce 300 mpg full-sized sedans. I should know. I am a mechanical engineer with experience in the area. And we&#8217;ve known how to do it since the 70&#8217;s. The technologies (nothing all that impressive) have not been implemented because of the various types of vehicles that use gasoline and the upper limit on their efficiency (boats, semis, trains)&#8230; think about it and consider inelastic demand.</p>
<p>So, Sullykid, demand does not necessarily drive supply here. Big oil controls both, but they are slowly losing their grip.</p>
<p>The problem here is monsterous, which is why it has been addressed so pussily (new word to describe congress &#8211; they act pussily). The stability of muslim nations, the auto industry, the plastics industry &#8230; almost all industries, and global economies hinges  on the modest health and stability (beta) of the energy markets.</p>
<p>While a think another Great Depression is possible, and it could cause WWIII, I don&#8217;t think it has to. We&#8217;re smart. We already have alternative fuels and we know how to make efficient products efficiently. I think our present problem is the fact that we have so many frickin viable alternatives. We need to outline a course of action and go with it.</p>
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		<title>By: misanthrope</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/running-out-of-oil#comment-14411</link>
		<dc:creator>misanthrope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=36#comment-14411</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;wallie79r said: &quot;The oil companies will delay any new development until the last possible moment, and by the time that hits, it is fully possible that it will be too late.&quot;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;
I think competition between companies will keep development as far ahead of the crash as is possible. Companies will have to keep developing their own alternatives for fear of a competitor having an alternative that they are in a position to deliver first. If they don&#039;t, then they&#039;ll lose out to those competitors when the time comes, and that&#039;s not a point I can see them missing or ignoring. Of course, it&#039;ll have to be hushed up until they need it for fear of leaks and backlash, so we&#039;ll probably never know until it&#039;s rolled out.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='quote'>wallie79r said: &#8220;The oil companies will delay any new development until the last possible moment, and by the time that hits, it is fully possible that it will be too late.&#8221;</span></p>
<p>
I think competition between companies will keep development as far ahead of the crash as is possible. Companies will have to keep developing their own alternatives for fear of a competitor having an alternative that they are in a position to deliver first. If they don&#8217;t, then they&#8217;ll lose out to those competitors when the time comes, and that&#8217;s not a point I can see them missing or ignoring. Of course, it&#8217;ll have to be hushed up until they need it for fear of leaks and backlash, so we&#8217;ll probably never know until it&#8217;s rolled out.</p>
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		<title>By: wallie79r</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/running-out-of-oil#comment-14393</link>
		<dc:creator>wallie79r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=36#comment-14393</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thats a nice theory, the only problem is, what happens if the crash hits faster than human greed and competition can react? The oil companies will delay any new development until the last possible moment, and by the time that hits, it is fully possible that it will be too late. It&#039;s rather hard to develop alternate sources of energy while the main source of energy is being funneled exclusively into survival, farming, etc. Its possible that we&#039;ll be able to react in time, but you can&#039;t say its certain that nothing seriously bad will happen.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thats a nice theory, the only problem is, what happens if the crash hits faster than human greed and competition can react? The oil companies will delay any new development until the last possible moment, and by the time that hits, it is fully possible that it will be too late. It&#8217;s rather hard to develop alternate sources of energy while the main source of energy is being funneled exclusively into survival, farming, etc. Its possible that we&#8217;ll be able to react in time, but you can&#8217;t say its certain that nothing seriously bad will happen.</p>
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		<title>By: TanoPrime</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/running-out-of-oil#comment-13436</link>
		<dc:creator>TanoPrime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=36#comment-13436</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Off the top of my head, no real source. I didn&#039;t actually bother to check my sources (sorry), just wrote what i remembered.
You got the point of it, though ?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off the top of my head, no real source. I didn&#8217;t actually bother to check my sources (sorry), just wrote what i remembered.<br />
You got the point of it, though ?</p>
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		<title>By: Drakvil</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/running-out-of-oil#comment-11659</link>
		<dc:creator>Drakvil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jan 2007 07:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=36#comment-11659</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In 1985 people were not predicting 225 kilohertz processors, common computers had passed that point.  In about 1987 I was tooling around in my 1.6 MHz Apple IIgs, and that was well below the high end of what personal computers could do at that time.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Dirigibles and balloons faster than 500 mph? In the 1800s  people would be amazed at speeds of 50 mph.  Where are you getting your figures?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1985 people were not predicting 225 kilohertz processors, common computers had passed that point.  In about 1987 I was tooling around in my 1.6 MHz Apple IIgs, and that was well below the high end of what personal computers could do at that time.</p>
<p>Dirigibles and balloons faster than 500 mph? In the 1800s  people would be amazed at speeds of 50 mph.  Where are you getting your figures?</p>
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