Comments on: The Last Great Steam Car http://www.damninteresting.com/the-last-great-steam-car A collection of Damn Interesting things Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:44:12 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: emag http://www.damninteresting.com/the-last-great-steam-car#comment-22569 emag Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:35:26 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=669#comment-22569 mariasman is the only one who mentioned it.....biomass gasifier. Literally millions of vehicles have run on wood/coal/biomass gasifiers, go to woodgas'dot'com for more info. Use woodgas to run a generator and you can charge your electric vehicle batteries every day. I cook with a woodgas stove - it generates a s#@tload of heat just using the brush, trimmed branches, lawn clippings, coffee grounds and banana peels I throw into it. Besides that, it's just fun to use (okay, I'm a closet pyro :-)). For a stationary ICE, say pump or generator, woodgas is great, a bit (i.e., a LOT) more difficult to adapt to a motor vehicle. Combine that technology with steam and you might really have something. mariasman is the only one who mentioned it…..biomass gasifier. Literally millions of vehicles have run on wood/coal/biomass gasifiers, go to woodgas’dot’com for more info. Use woodgas to run a generator and you can charge your electric vehicle batteries every day. I cook with a woodgas stove – it generates a s#@tload of heat just using the brush, trimmed branches, lawn clippings, coffee grounds and banana peels I throw into it. Besides that, it’s just fun to use (okay, I’m a closet pyro :-)). For a stationary ICE, say pump or generator, woodgas is great, a bit (i.e., a LOT) more difficult to adapt to a motor vehicle. Combine that technology with steam and you might really have something.

]]> By: holubjj http://www.damninteresting.com/the-last-great-steam-car#comment-21748 holubjj Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:32:42 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=669#comment-21748 check out the" bullet engine" designed by kasmericz holubowicz off google search that claims to capture 92% power conversion using 12 stroke high torque "bullet" type explosion technology. I also think a dobie like steam conversion for home wood burners could capture heat losses, while generating electricty and hot water. any other dobie like engine conversion stories out there? Jeff check out the” bullet engine” designed by kasmericz holubowicz off google search that claims to capture 92% power conversion using 12 stroke high torque “bullet” type explosion technology.

I also think a dobie like steam conversion for home wood burners could capture heat losses, while generating electricty and hot water.

any other dobie like engine conversion stories out there?

Jeff

]]> By: adventurerjim http://www.damninteresting.com/the-last-great-steam-car#comment-19132 adventurerjim Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:14:22 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=669#comment-19132 Witht he recent interest in alternative energy and hybrid vehicles the Doble and similar vehicles are getting notice. In the 1/08 issue of Hemmings Classic Car there is a great article on the 1925 Doble. Additionaly there is a blog www.route66chronicles.blogspot.com with lots of articles on similar cars. Witht he recent interest in alternative energy and hybrid vehicles the Doble and similar vehicles are getting notice. In the 1/08 issue of Hemmings Classic Car there is a great article on the 1925 Doble. Additionaly there is a blog http://www.route66chronicles.blogspot.com with lots of articles on similar cars.

]]> By: mariasman http://www.damninteresting.com/the-last-great-steam-car#comment-17222 mariasman Sun, 09 Sep 2007 20:53:04 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=669#comment-17222 Steam is the better power plant for automobiles. Those who disagree most often do not understand steam, and/or they are biased in favor of other options. Steam solves all of the problems presented by the alternatives. The primary issues are performance, range, efficiency, emissions, reliability, longevity, safety, fuel availability. Let's compare: Electric cars get points for performance, emissions, reliability, and fuel availability. Efficiency is lacking. One person here argues that municipal power plants are more efficient implying that the electric car is on net balance more efficient. Not quite. There are an average of 30% transmission losses from power plant to battery charger. Battery charger sees additional 10% loss. Batteries themselves only deliver about 75% of the energy used to charge them. Motor controller has losses and motor has losses. Therefore, on net balance the electric car is seeing about 15% efficiency at best. Then there are other problems to contend with.... the range of the electric car is limited, batteries take time to charge, batteries must be replaced and they are expensive (they are also toxic). So, as one person emphasized here, there is always a trade off. In many niches the electric car may be a good solution, but the idea that the majority of persons should go electric is just absurd. Remember, passionate issues require dispassionate analysis. I'm just being objective. How about hybrid cars? Well, I'm not a huge fan of hybrids for a variety of reasons. There is added complexity. A hybrid is basically a standard automobile with lots of additional components. Not my idea of elegance. However, I do believe that a series hybrid car (like the Chevy Volt) is a step in the right direction. We still have the internal combustion engine with the fuel limitations, expensive emissions controls, and nasty emissions. The overall complexity remains high, but not so much as parallel hybrids. The fuel cell solves some problems, but presents more including more limitations on fuel availability. Now consider a modern steam engine. I invoke the Cyclone Engine (see previous post) for reference. Let's look at performance, range, efficiency, emissions, reliability, longevity, safety, fuel availability. 1. Performance - Similar to a two stroke gasoline engine, but starting torque is far greater (and Cyclone is FAR less noisy). A 100 hp Cyclone has a starting torque of 700 ft lbs. The torque profile is like a gas engine's flipped backwards.... torque is highest starting out and falls, but always remains at least twice as high as a 4 stroke gas engine at the same speed and rated power. The torque curve is such that a transmission is NOT required. Engine is self-starting (can operate at 1 rpm up to 3600 rpm). Engine can even reverse itself. A Diesel automotive power plant (including all auxiliaries.... transmission, emissions controls, radiator, starter motor, flywheel, etc.) with the same power as a Cyclone automotive power plant weighs 2.5 times as much as the Cyclone. 2. Range - Higher efficiency and ability to use fuels with greater energy density will extend range relative to gas autos. 3. Efficiency - Measured at 36% thermal efficiency.... roughly equivalent to Diesel engines. However, there are fewer power transmission losses because, well, NO transmission is required, only a much simpler gear box. 4. Emissions - With no emissions controls at all (no computers, sensors, catalytic converter, etc) the emissions are far lower than the cleanest internal combustion engine. Additionally, nitrous oxide emissions are virtually nonexistent. The Cyclone passes CA smog standards for the year 2020, and with NO modification. 5. Reliability - A Cyclone automotive power plant has less than 1/5 the parts count of a standard automotive power plant (including power transmission equipment). The 6 cylinder radial Cyclone has one cam to operate all 6 inlet valves and there are NO exhaust valves. There is a single thermostat to control boiler temperature (50+ year old technology), and a single electric motor driven blower fan. Steam generator, condenser, and auxiliary heat exchangers are simple and integrated with the engine. Peak engine temperature is 1200F vs nearly 2500F in internal combustion. Average speed is lower. Engine cylinders and bearings are WATER LUBRICATED. NO OIL CHANGES! Water and steam is in a closed system.... no adding water, either! 6. Longevity - Lubricating quality of water and the composite materials used in the Cyclone is the same as oil lubrication in internal combustion engines, but there is NO fouling of the system as seen in internal combustion. The closed system of the Cyclone is always clean. Additionally, operating temperatures are lower in the Cyclone and average speed is lower. 7. Safety - The power plant itself is perfectly safe. But more importantly, the high power to weight ratio and CRAZY torque provides no need to compromise on vehicle safety (like electric cars and hybrids often do). One great application for the Cyclone is the trucking industry and earth moving equipment. 8. Fuel availability - The Cyclone truly shines here! The Cyclone has been operated on the following fuels (so far) with no modification to the engine: gasoline, ethanol, E-85, diesel, biodiesel, SVO, fuel oil, kerosene, orange oil, acetone, propane, butane, hydrogen, crude oil... the engine has even operated on solid fuels including coal dust and wood flour. Additionally, there is no reason at all why a biomass gasifier cannot be used as well (wood chips, wood pellets, paper pellets, seaweed pellets). For stationary applications (a generator for example) the Cyclone can also operate using concentrated solar (a Cyclone has been operated by heat lamps just to illustrate the concept). I can go on and on, but it should be a slam dunk. Steam is the way to go... and we've only scratched the surface of its potential. Steam is the better power plant for automobiles. Those who disagree most often do not understand steam, and/or they are biased in favor of other options. Steam solves all of the problems presented by the alternatives. The primary issues are performance, range, efficiency, emissions, reliability, longevity, safety, fuel availability. Let’s compare:
Electric cars get points for performance, emissions, reliability, and fuel availability. Efficiency is lacking. One person here argues that municipal power plants are more efficient implying that the electric car is on net balance more efficient. Not quite. There are an average of 30% transmission losses from power plant to battery charger. Battery charger sees additional 10% loss. Batteries themselves only deliver about 75% of the energy used to charge them. Motor controller has losses and motor has losses. Therefore, on net balance the electric car is seeing about 15% efficiency at best. Then there are other problems to contend with…. the range of the electric car is limited, batteries take time to charge, batteries must be replaced and they are expensive (they are also toxic). So, as one person emphasized here, there is always a trade off. In many niches the electric car may be a good solution, but the idea that the majority of persons should go electric is just absurd. Remember, passionate issues require dispassionate analysis. I’m just being objective.
How about hybrid cars? Well, I’m not a huge fan of hybrids for a variety of reasons. There is added complexity. A hybrid is basically a standard automobile with lots of additional components. Not my idea of elegance. However, I do believe that a series hybrid car (like the Chevy Volt) is a step in the right direction. We still have the internal combustion engine with the fuel limitations, expensive emissions controls, and nasty emissions. The overall complexity remains high, but not so much as parallel hybrids. The fuel cell solves some problems, but presents more including more limitations on fuel availability.
Now consider a modern steam engine. I invoke the Cyclone Engine (see previous post) for reference. Let’s look at performance, range, efficiency, emissions, reliability, longevity, safety, fuel availability.
1. Performance – Similar to a two stroke gasoline engine, but starting torque is far greater (and Cyclone is FAR less noisy). A 100 hp Cyclone has a starting torque of 700 ft lbs. The torque profile is like a gas engine’s flipped backwards…. torque is highest starting out and falls, but always remains at least twice as high as a 4 stroke gas engine at the same speed and rated power. The torque curve is such that a transmission is NOT required. Engine is self-starting (can operate at 1 rpm up to 3600 rpm). Engine can even reverse itself. A Diesel automotive power plant (including all auxiliaries…. transmission, emissions controls, radiator, starter motor, flywheel, etc.) with the same power as a Cyclone automotive power plant weighs 2.5 times as much as the Cyclone.
2. Range – Higher efficiency and ability to use fuels with greater energy density will extend range relative to gas autos.
3. Efficiency – Measured at 36% thermal efficiency…. roughly equivalent to Diesel engines. However, there are fewer power transmission losses because, well, NO transmission is required, only a much simpler gear box.
4. Emissions – With no emissions controls at all (no computers, sensors, catalytic converter, etc) the emissions are far lower than the cleanest internal combustion engine. Additionally, nitrous oxide emissions are virtually nonexistent. The Cyclone passes CA smog standards for the year 2020, and with NO modification.
5. Reliability – A Cyclone automotive power plant has less than 1/5 the parts count of a standard automotive power plant (including power transmission equipment). The 6 cylinder radial Cyclone has one cam to operate all 6 inlet valves and there are NO exhaust valves. There is a single thermostat to control boiler temperature (50+ year old technology), and a single electric motor driven blower fan. Steam generator, condenser, and auxiliary heat exchangers are simple and integrated with the engine. Peak engine temperature is 1200F vs nearly 2500F in internal combustion. Average speed is lower. Engine cylinders and bearings are WATER LUBRICATED. NO OIL CHANGES! Water and steam is in a closed system…. no adding water, either!
6. Longevity – Lubricating quality of water and the composite materials used in the Cyclone is the same as oil lubrication in internal combustion engines, but there is NO fouling of the system as seen in internal combustion. The closed system of the Cyclone is always clean. Additionally, operating temperatures are lower in the Cyclone and average speed is lower.
7. Safety – The power plant itself is perfectly safe. But more importantly, the high power to weight ratio and CRAZY torque provides no need to compromise on vehicle safety (like electric cars and hybrids often do). One great application for the Cyclone is the trucking industry and earth moving equipment.
8. Fuel availability – The Cyclone truly shines here! The Cyclone has been operated on the following fuels (so far) with no modification to the engine: gasoline, ethanol, E-85, diesel, biodiesel, SVO, fuel oil, kerosene, orange oil, acetone, propane, butane, hydrogen, crude oil… the engine has even operated on solid fuels including coal dust and wood flour. Additionally, there is no reason at all why a biomass gasifier cannot be used as well (wood chips, wood pellets, paper pellets, seaweed pellets). For stationary applications (a generator for example) the Cyclone can also operate using concentrated solar (a Cyclone has been operated by heat lamps just to illustrate the concept).

I can go on and on, but it should be a slam dunk. Steam is the way to go… and we’ve only scratched the surface of its potential.

]]> By: powaz74 http://www.damninteresting.com/the-last-great-steam-car#comment-16754 powaz74 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:35:56 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=669#comment-16754 <p>well, here i am way down at the bottom - i think forums like this should post the most recent comment at the top... just from a design standpoint - anyway, yes steam is an awesome technology. prooven, yet forgotten by money. go see Harry's stuvv in florida: http://cyclonepower.com/</p> well, here i am way down at the bottom – i think forums like this should post the most recent comment at the top… just from a design standpoint – anyway, yes steam is an awesome technology. prooven, yet forgotten by money. go see Harry’s stuvv in florida: http://cyclonepower.com/

]]> By: GearheadPA http://www.damninteresting.com/the-last-great-steam-car#comment-15791 GearheadPA Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:28:28 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=669#comment-15791 <p>Check out http://greensteamengine.com for a new twist (!) on steam engines.</p> Check out http://greensteamengine.com for a new twist (!) on steam engines.

]]> By: mariasman http://www.damninteresting.com/the-last-great-steam-car#comment-11018 mariasman Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:26:04 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=669#comment-11018 <p>Nutramistic, I agree with you.... you're not really that smart.</p> Nutramistic, I agree with you…. you’re not really that smart.

]]> By: nutramistic http://www.damninteresting.com/the-last-great-steam-car#comment-10006 nutramistic Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:16:17 +0000 http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=669#comment-10006 <p>What we do is for ourselves. What we can't do as cheaply as others, we have outsourced to China or India. That isn't truly "America" though. It's corporations doing what they can because a lack of government regulation allows it. As we continue to move towards a service-based economy, our dollar will continue to drop in value, unless said services are the type that increase the standard of living. By what rubric do you measure standard of living. I would prefer to live underneath a giant mushroom like the smurfs. Those blue things are awesome!</p><p> All that said, don't take me seriously. I'm not really that smart.</p> What we do is for ourselves. What we can’t do as cheaply as others, we have outsourced to China or India. That isn’t truly “America” though. It’s corporations doing what they can because a lack of government regulation allows it. As we continue to move towards a service-based economy, our dollar will continue to drop in value, unless said services are the type that increase the standard of living. By what rubric do you measure standard of living. I would prefer to live underneath a giant mushroom like the smurfs. Those blue things are awesome!

All that said, don’t take me seriously. I’m not really that smart.

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