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	<title>Comments on: Vesna&#8217;s Fall</title>
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	<description>A collection of Damn Interesting things</description>
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		<title>By: ARTHVR</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/vesnas-fall#comment-24245</link>
		<dc:creator>ARTHVR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 18:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=18#comment-24245</guid>
		<description>To mfilip62:

Just one question: did the Ustase want to ethnically cleanse Serbs out of Croatia? Just answer yes or no. If yes, how are they different from Nazis and racists? And you even talk of human rights? They cooperated with a regime that killed 21 million people. Even Ukrainians and Poles who hated Stalin fought with the allies against the Nazis. 

Just because Milosevic and other war criminals was a Serb-supremacist, racist despot doesn&#039;t mean that the group should adopt similar methods in armed resistance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To mfilip62:</p>
<p>Just one question: did the Ustase want to ethnically cleanse Serbs out of Croatia? Just answer yes or no. If yes, how are they different from Nazis and racists? And you even talk of human rights? They cooperated with a regime that killed 21 million people. Even Ukrainians and Poles who hated Stalin fought with the allies against the Nazis. </p>
<p>Just because Milosevic and other war criminals was a Serb-supremacist, racist despot doesn&#8217;t mean that the group should adopt similar methods in armed resistance.</p>
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		<title>By: RTS</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/vesnas-fall#comment-23702</link>
		<dc:creator>RTS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=18#comment-23702</guid>
		<description>Travis, I was just wondering how people from former Yugoslav area tend to contaminate each and every corner of the Internet with their petty political propaganda, when I stumbled upon your comment that should actually be marked with a huge &quot;CRAP ALERT&quot; sign. Anyway, in all that twisting of facts, at least this: 

[quote]...It shows that Serb, at the time of existence of Yugoslavia were not respecting other ethnic group who worked for JAT, basically all flight crew were Serbs, and if you were of other Republic at that time, every step would be taken to have you removed and Serb placed on that position. I remember coming to Canada on JAT flight, and I asked for extra orange, guess what I was told: &quot;there&#039;s no more and rest is for us (flight crew).

I flew with other airlines and received far better service (even flying with Pan Am I got two meals).[/quote] 

gave me a good laugh, as did this: 

[quote]...Trust me, that&#039;s the fact.[/quote] 

And it comes from a former JAT employee when I tell you, good that they did not give you an extra orange, you&#039;ve been a bad, bad boy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Travis, I was just wondering how people from former Yugoslav area tend to contaminate each and every corner of the Internet with their petty political propaganda, when I stumbled upon your comment that should actually be marked with a huge &#8220;CRAP ALERT&#8221; sign. Anyway, in all that twisting of facts, at least this: </p>
<p>[quote]&#8230;It shows that Serb, at the time of existence of Yugoslavia were not respecting other ethnic group who worked for JAT, basically all flight crew were Serbs, and if you were of other Republic at that time, every step would be taken to have you removed and Serb placed on that position. I remember coming to Canada on JAT flight, and I asked for extra orange, guess what I was told: &#8220;there&#8217;s no more and rest is for us (flight crew).</p>
<p>I flew with other airlines and received far better service (even flying with Pan Am I got two meals).[/quote] </p>
<p>gave me a good laugh, as did this: </p>
<p>[quote]&#8230;Trust me, that&#8217;s the fact.[/quote] </p>
<p>And it comes from a former JAT employee when I tell you, good that they did not give you an extra orange, you&#8217;ve been a bad, bad boy.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Pecarevic</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/vesnas-fall#comment-22996</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Pecarevic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 14:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=18#comment-22996</guid>
		<description>Have you ever thought about this? It is impossible to survive a freefall from 33.000 ft. If this is right, you may doubt that Vesna&#039;s plane crash happened like we were told for 36 years. 
And about the Ustashe. It was only a phone call made by a man speaking bad Swedish which is the evidence for blaming Croatian extremists. This man called the Malmö newspaper &#039;Äftenposten&#039; on 27 January 1972, which was enough for a speaker of the Yugoslav government to blame the &#039;Ustashe&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you ever thought about this? It is impossible to survive a freefall from 33.000 ft. If this is right, you may doubt that Vesna&#8217;s plane crash happened like we were told for 36 years.<br />
And about the Ustashe. It was only a phone call made by a man speaking bad Swedish which is the evidence for blaming Croatian extremists. This man called the Malmö newspaper &#8216;Äftenposten&#8217; on 27 January 1972, which was enough for a speaker of the Yugoslav government to blame the &#8216;Ustashe&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: proljece</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/vesnas-fall#comment-21129</link>
		<dc:creator>proljece</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=18#comment-21129</guid>
		<description>God bless Vesna!

God bless the Internet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God bless Vesna!</p>
<p>God bless the Internet.</p>
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		<title>By: proljece</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/vesnas-fall#comment-21128</link>
		<dc:creator>proljece</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=18#comment-21128</guid>
		<description>I remember this story about Vesna Vulovic when I was a little Croatian girl living in Croatia (Yugoslavia). 
Amazing story of miraculous survival!  Later came across the same story again.
I never heard of the reason of the fatal crash except of : just a crash: VV was in the tail of the plane, it was reported; that was all. Noone mentioned ustashas and the terrorist bomb.

Vesna (goddess of spring in Slavonic folk myths) survived that crash so I can learn NOW (better sooner than never: April, 2008, thanks to the Internet) the ustashas DID that. 

The same as they did this &gt;&gt; http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/76dec/brockman.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember this story about Vesna Vulovic when I was a little Croatian girl living in Croatia (Yugoslavia).<br />
Amazing story of miraculous survival!  Later came across the same story again.<br />
I never heard of the reason of the fatal crash except of : just a crash: VV was in the tail of the plane, it was reported; that was all. Noone mentioned ustashas and the terrorist bomb.</p>
<p>Vesna (goddess of spring in Slavonic folk myths) survived that crash so I can learn NOW (better sooner than never: April, 2008, thanks to the Internet) the ustashas DID that. </p>
<p>The same as they did this &gt;&gt; <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/76dec/brockman.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/76dec/brockman.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: HiEv</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/vesnas-fall#comment-18612</link>
		<dc:creator>HiEv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=18#comment-18612</guid>
		<description>Actually, there are two different proposed explanations, neither confirmed.  The &quot;bomb&quot; explanation seems to be the originally accepted one, but the &quot;missile&quot; explanation does have some good evidence for it as well.  See:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JAT_Flight_364&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wikipedia: JAT Flight 364&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.planecrashinfo.com/1972/1972-7.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PlaneCrashInfo.Com: Entry on Flight 364&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19720126-0&amp;lang=en&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Aviation Safety Network: Entry on Flight 364&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, there are two different proposed explanations, neither confirmed.  The &#8220;bomb&#8221; explanation seems to be the originally accepted one, but the &#8220;missile&#8221; explanation does have some good evidence for it as well.  See:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JAT_Flight_364" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia: JAT Flight 364</a><br />
<a href="http://www.planecrashinfo.com/1972/1972-7.htm" rel="nofollow">PlaneCrashInfo.Com: Entry on Flight 364</a><br />
<a href="http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19720126-0&amp;lang=en" rel="nofollow">Aviation Safety Network: Entry on Flight 364</a></p>
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		<title>By: Travis</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/vesnas-fall#comment-18584</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=18#comment-18584</guid>
		<description>[quote]whaaat said: &quot;I don&#039;t care how respected a group may be but if you put a bomb on a plane and kill civilians on purpose - you are a terrorist&quot;[/quote]

There was no bomb planted on that flight, it was the work of UDBA (Yugoslav Secret Police at that time, and Czechoslovakian Secret Police, (now Czech Republic) to throw a blame on USTASE, Croatian Terrorist Group. It was found that the civilian plane was a direct hit and downed by a Czechoslovakian missile at that time.  (They had military exercise going for 2 hours and their airspace was restricted to civilian flights  for two hours). If the DC9 aircraft was blown from inside, it would have been broken in more pieces, but since it was a direct hit from outside, it was a clean break in half on impact, therefore it wasn&#039;t a bomb, it was a missile that downed the plane.
On the other hand, if you know enough history of survivial of Croatian civilians, what happened during and after the WWII, what Yugoslav Partisans have done to Croatians, (for example Bleiburg where hundred of thousands of Croatians were murdered by partisan/russian forces) during the Tito&#039;s rule and after his death, Yugoslavia was trying to stay in one piece, but it was the Serbia&#039;s dream of &quot;Supreme Serbia&quot; and to wipe out every ethnic groups at that time: Slovenians, Croatians, Bosnians, Macedonians, Montenegrins and Kosovars to tell them they&#039;re no longer this and that but Serbs),  that in effect destroyed Yugoslavia, thus iginiting civil war. It shows that Serb, at the time of existence of Yugoslavia were not respecting other ethnic group who worked for JAT, basically all flight crew were Serbs, and if you were of other Republic at that time, every step would be taken to have you removed and Serb placed on that position. I remember coming to Canada on JAT flight, and I asked for extra orange, guess what I was told: &quot;there&#039;s no more and rest is for us (flight crew). 
I flew with other airlines and received far better service (even flying with Pan Am I got two meals). 
In closing this, I would say, for example you are a Pole and Serb comes to you and tell you, &quot;hey you.. you are no longer Pole, you are Serb&quot;. would you accept that or refuse? If you refused, guess what would happen.. you&#039;ll get killed for that. Trust me, that&#039;s the fact.
Get your facts straight and read more. Please don&#039;t jump in conclusion that you know more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[quote]whaaat said: &#8220;I don&#8217;t care how respected a group may be but if you put a bomb on a plane and kill civilians on purpose &#8211; you are a terrorist&#8221;[/quote]</p>
<p>There was no bomb planted on that flight, it was the work of UDBA (Yugoslav Secret Police at that time, and Czechoslovakian Secret Police, (now Czech Republic) to throw a blame on USTASE, Croatian Terrorist Group. It was found that the civilian plane was a direct hit and downed by a Czechoslovakian missile at that time.  (They had military exercise going for 2 hours and their airspace was restricted to civilian flights  for two hours). If the DC9 aircraft was blown from inside, it would have been broken in more pieces, but since it was a direct hit from outside, it was a clean break in half on impact, therefore it wasn&#8217;t a bomb, it was a missile that downed the plane.<br />
On the other hand, if you know enough history of survivial of Croatian civilians, what happened during and after the WWII, what Yugoslav Partisans have done to Croatians, (for example Bleiburg where hundred of thousands of Croatians were murdered by partisan/russian forces) during the Tito&#8217;s rule and after his death, Yugoslavia was trying to stay in one piece, but it was the Serbia&#8217;s dream of &#8220;Supreme Serbia&#8221; and to wipe out every ethnic groups at that time: Slovenians, Croatians, Bosnians, Macedonians, Montenegrins and Kosovars to tell them they&#8217;re no longer this and that but Serbs),  that in effect destroyed Yugoslavia, thus iginiting civil war. It shows that Serb, at the time of existence of Yugoslavia were not respecting other ethnic group who worked for JAT, basically all flight crew were Serbs, and if you were of other Republic at that time, every step would be taken to have you removed and Serb placed on that position. I remember coming to Canada on JAT flight, and I asked for extra orange, guess what I was told: &#8220;there&#8217;s no more and rest is for us (flight crew).<br />
I flew with other airlines and received far better service (even flying with Pan Am I got two meals).<br />
In closing this, I would say, for example you are a Pole and Serb comes to you and tell you, &#8220;hey you.. you are no longer Pole, you are Serb&#8221;. would you accept that or refuse? If you refused, guess what would happen.. you&#8217;ll get killed for that. Trust me, that&#8217;s the fact.<br />
Get your facts straight and read more. Please don&#8217;t jump in conclusion that you know more.</p>
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		<title>By: bonjour641</title>
		<link>http://www.damninteresting.com/vesnas-fall#comment-15752</link>
		<dc:creator>bonjour641</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 20:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=18#comment-15752</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;span class=&#039;quote&#039;&gt;schuylercat said:   Note – someone PLEASE tell me how to spell “shooshed.”  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Do you mean &quot;schussed&quot;? I don&#039;t even know what that means, but it sounds like something you do when you ski. I&#039;m just a spelling dork, don&#039;t blame me!! : /  sorry. I&#039;m a n00b.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='quote'>schuylercat said:   Note – someone PLEASE tell me how to spell “shooshed.”  </span></p>
<p>Do you mean &#8220;schussed&#8221;? I don&#8217;t even know what that means, but it sounds like something you do when you ski. I&#8217;m just a spelling dork, don&#8217;t blame me!! : /  sorry. I&#8217;m a n00b.</p>
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