Comments on: The Artificial Prison of the Human Mind https://www.damninteresting.com/the-artificial-prison-of-the-human-mind/ Fascinating true stories from science, history, and psychology since 2005 Sat, 14 Aug 2021 20:30:15 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.5.2 By: fsjec6 https://www.damninteresting.com/the-artificial-prison-of-the-human-mind/#comment-38657 Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:46:47 +0000 https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=443#comment-38657 I have read of more recent studies that show that when required to carry cameras to record their actions, and that they cannot control, police officers become very far less likely to use force or other abusive behavior. Evidence that accountability is important and currently is lacking.

]]> By: interestedkid https://www.damninteresting.com/the-artificial-prison-of-the-human-mind/#comment-26418 Mon, 28 Feb 2011 06:39:39 +0000 https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=443#comment-26418 Does anyone seem to think this is the way our government is against all of their “subjects”? It seems to me that our very own government puts us through this same sort of situation where we technically can easily over throw them, but we do not because we “know our place”. I think we do not step up and simply ask “why?” as stated in another comment above. I think fear has a main role in this too just because we accept our place and we would not know what would happen if we ever got out of line. If we were all to stand up and say screw this it would be a different story, but only a couple would do that, a few would think that, and the rest would never ever think to do that because of fear. This may sound a bit off track here, but I just think fear is a good role in this as well.

]]> By: allduerespect88 https://www.damninteresting.com/the-artificial-prison-of-the-human-mind/#comment-23685 Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:45:37 +0000 https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=443#comment-23685 [quote]tigoldbitty said: “The matrix.”[/quote]

Can someone get him a coloring book? :-)

]]> By: elphaba https://www.damninteresting.com/the-artificial-prison-of-the-human-mind/#comment-23572 Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:44:54 +0000 https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=443#comment-23572 God, that is sooo creepy.

]]> By: Zefiro https://www.damninteresting.com/the-artificial-prison-of-the-human-mind/#comment-23211 Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:56:38 +0000 https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=443#comment-23211 [quote]Former-Marine said: “I also saw a movie in the 80’s (I don’t remember the name of the film), where a school teacher wanted to show how the entire country of Germany was taken in by Hitler. [/quote]
This probably was The Wave, which IMDB lists as movies both from 1981 and 2008.

From the description given here and what I heard elsewhere when I first heard about this experiment I cannot conclude that those ‘prisoners’ were really free to abort the experiment:
[quote]“The participant soon became convinced that there was no escape from the study and went into a rage, an action that was finally enough to prompt his release from the study.”[/quote]
So he and “several others” were released, but of which decision? Their own, or Zimbardos?
[quote]“When asked if they’d sacrifice their payment in the study to get out early, most said yes. However, all paroles were rejected. Even though they had no incentive to continue in the study, they went with it anyways – as though they were really stuck in prison. Not that the guards would have let them free– as time went on the guards became more involved with their end of the study as well.”[/quote]
So, it’s open how much freedom to just say the Safeword they really had. To me this paragraph doesn’t really sound like they had.

But assuming they really could say “Stop, I quit the experiment” and would be heared, “forgetting” that this was an option – as mentioned here by Haylay and disputed by Ayan – is very real. The term “Stopword” I mentioned actually comes from the BDSM subculture, where such kinds of power play are very common and the Sub really wants to have some ‘lower position’. The community is very sensible to these topics and have mechanism to not let it get out of hand. Especially some unwritten rules and those Stopwords – but mostly that they are good friends or loving partners, not some random people thrown together in an experiment for which they could lay ethical blame on the organizers.

From my own experience I can assure you, yes, it is completely possible to “forget” aborting is an option. For as long as you are in the situation, and for reevaluating it you need to (mentally) take a step back. You don’t need to be in high panic to not being able to see the greater picture. Every day life is similar… you COULD just quit your boring job with the mobbing collegues at any time, couldn’t you?

]]> By: a1c https://www.damninteresting.com/the-artificial-prison-of-the-human-mind/#comment-22454 Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:23:35 +0000 https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=443#comment-22454 Power is the ability to be or make be. Whomever has the strongest “frame” is always the winner and decides the fate of the perception of any situation. It’s sort of like wagging the dog.

]]> By: Mirage_GSM https://www.damninteresting.com/the-artificial-prison-of-the-human-mind/#comment-21775 Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:13:10 +0000 https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=443#comment-21775 For a modernized take on the Lord of the Flies theme, Infinite Ryvius is an interesting series to watch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Ryvius

]]> By: aimew https://www.damninteresting.com/the-artificial-prison-of-the-human-mind/#comment-20657 Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:38:15 +0000 https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=443#comment-20657 My first thoughts were about the Nuremberg trials and how the Allies dealt with the concentration camp guards; were we too harsh with them? Were we harsh enough? In view of this, and other experiments like it, I have more compassion for those guards than I may have formally. Many of them were truly perplexed at their own behavior, blaming it on orders and having no choice, yet at the time they were doing what they were doing, there was little enough hesitation or rebellion from those very guards. It made their stories unconvincing to the jurors at the time; but I wonder, if these types of experiments had been done prior to those trials, would the guards even have been tried? Hopefully we have learned something from these experiments.
I do not wish to make light of the Holocaust at all or in any way; but should the guards really have been held accountable? The Commandants and higher authorities, yes, but perhaps not the guards themselves.
What about the guards at Abu Ghraib? Should those individuals be held accountable for group behavior? In my honest opinion, yes, because that was an entirely different situation. Unlike the experiment where armatures were involved, or Nazi guards, where their behavior was not only sanctioned but was encouraged by their society and their superiors and so the group psychology had free reign, the guards at Abu Ghraib were professional soldiers with standing orders and rules of engagement. That behavior was not sanctioned by our society nor the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) and so they not only knew better but they knew and understood that what they were doing was wrong. They attempted to hide their behavior and were only caught by chance. That was not the case with the other two extremes where they did what they did openly.
—
[On another note: I do wish people would read the comments before they added their own, it would reduce the duplicates considerably. There is something to be said about how people leave comments on sites like this, too. I wonder at the psychology of it all? Have studies been done on this phenomenon? I’d like to see that! (Spell checkers would help, too.)]
—
To the former Marine who posted earlier – Semper Fi from another, and a Vietnam Vet as well!
—
If we treated others as we would like to be treated ourselves it would be a far better world.

]]> By: Former-Marine https://www.damninteresting.com/the-artificial-prison-of-the-human-mind/#comment-18132 Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:51:52 +0000 https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=443#comment-18132 (ahem) Oorah! Marine Corps prison. That’s where those unfortunate few Marine – we call them “non-hackers” – end up. I’ll be the first to tell anyone that 10% of ANY group – the U.S. Navy; Canada; France(?); Girl Scouts; The Red Cross; etc – is bad. The only organization that may have more than 10% is any government.

The Marine Corps has a stringent filtering process to weed out all non-hackers from entering my beloved Marine Corps. However, as efficient as our filtering system is, it is definitely not perfect. By the way, I don’t care for the reason for the study “…try to better understand problems in Marine Corps prisons”. Seems to me that ANY prison has this problem. I also saw a movie in the 80’s (I don’t remember the name of the film), where a school teacher wanted to show how the entire country of Germany was taken in by Hitler. This study almost mirrors that movie, with the exception of “prison” and “prisoners”. Anyway, Damn good article. Keep up the excellent work! Ooorah!

]]> By: Kao_Valin https://www.damninteresting.com/the-artificial-prison-of-the-human-mind/#comment-16612 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 14:29:37 +0000 https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=443#comment-16612 Would a follow up question come about such as “Well if imprisonment is bad and will not help matter, what alternatives are there for real punishment?” Kind’ve makes you think that the prison system is making matters worse. Then again some people were just raised to cause trouble so detaining them from the general population isnt neccessarily a bad idea.

It is interesting the think that had the experiment continued, the “normal” people may have pressed their oppression. The result of that would be the oppressors would oppress differently or more so than before (ie longer time permitted in solitary). So eventually it would be a vicious cycle whereby the guards and the prisoners would escalate until neither or one was no longer willing to escalate further. Eventually the killers would be on both sides don’t you agree?

]]>